Obamacare is about control. And, of course, it's about money.

They're making money with a chemical mega industry, so they might as well make more money selling us more chemicals to treat the cancers and other diseases the first chemicals caused.

But, more important, is the control it offers them. That's why databases and information sharing is so important. Want to take away a veteran's second amendment rights? Tell him he has PTSD, isn't stable, needs to take antidepressants (which induce psychotic thoughts and behavior and increase suicide rates), and can't be trusted with firearms. DHS is sending out thousands of letters right now telling veterans they cannot posses firearms, even though they have no legal basis for it.

Hell, government agencies have taken people's children away because a veteran's spouse was on medication--clearly conclusive evidence that both were unfit parents!

It's about control. It's about getting people in the system. It's about having leverage and power over them to ensure that they stay in line. People are made examples of--a very powerful tool to influence behavior.

The Affordable Care Act doesn't do anything about how employer-based healthcare in the USA is, which is bad because people usually lose their healthcare when they lose or change their jobs. This is a result of a 1943 IRS ruling. It's a result of government. This new law does nothing about it. The Affordable Care Act doesn't increase competition by ending the bans on healthcare being sold across state lines. The Affordable Care Act doesn't cut taxes and fees to make healthcare more affordable--It does the opposite, making healthcare more expensive and less accessible.

Literally the only arguable benefit of the act is that it standardizes requirements for state-funded insurance for the poorest people, living on government assistance. But these people are already the beneficiaries of state programs that already exist, and can be modified as voters and elected leaders see fit (not requiring thousands of pages of new laws).

Literally nobody claiming otherwise is both honest and educated on the subject. It's new taxes--gigantic ones. It's many new bureaucracies, given unwritten (unlimited) regulatory powers.

What will people relying on government funding do when benevolent bureaucrats fail in providing necessary and reasonable care? Good luck with appeals, considering that many regulations due to take effect within the next year haven't even been published yet if they've been finalized or even written at all. And good luck righting wrongs before the patient is irreparably harmed or dead, considering the pace at which massive government bureaucracies handle anything.

And yes, of course, as this thread points out, it will create shortages as free markets are meddled with [even more] and power is taken away from doctors and their patients. Focusing in on such a detail misses the big picture, which is obvious to the educated and really not contentious at all among those who are honest and not suffering from psychological disorders.

Focusing on such a detail only harms the message that Obamacare is terrible and entirely harmful to America and Americans. When you quibble over this detail, those who support this tyranny respond by disputing your statements regarding the detail and contending that there are loads more benefits in the bill (which could arguably make up for the harm you claim in this detail, even if they conceded your point).

Perceiving such an exchange as a victory over ignorance and anyone who believes this legislation is harmful, supporters and apathetic sheep (ie, the vast majority of Americans and voters) are further desensitized to bigger-picture, more inclusive, more powerful, more decisive arguments against this legislation.

There is no substitute for education and knowledge of what's in this legislation. That supply will diminish (resulting in increased prices and delayed care) is already well known to opponents of the bill, and it's not their strongest argument anyway. That supply will diminish is disputed by this bill's ignorant supporters, and they believe that the bill has so many other redeeming benefits that it's acceptable to them that it will diminish supply (even if they accept this fact).

Also, as Arbolio3 points out, "10% plan to retire" doesn't mean anything. Over what time period? 100% are going to retire, eventually. Your statement literally tells us nothing. And, even if you just neglected to include the time frame in your post, such as "next year" or "when the law is fully implemented," that still leaves out a comparison to average rates during recent periods to compare and contrast the "10%" rate. 10% compared to what? Maybe it's usually 12%. If that's the case, 10% is an improvement. There's no argument presented at all.

Sheeple are herded. They do not think or make decisions.

Literally nobody with a brain thought Obamacare was a good idea. But sheepherders had money and control to gain from it. So here it is.

Nice try but....

My own proposal was offered as well, and rejected by dems.

They took some Republican ideas and made monstrosities out of them.

Don't forget that I can't save money on healthcare through my ridiculously healthy diet and lifestyle. I need to pay just as much as Joe down the block who's 350 lbs and eats garbage. How rude is it for me to not want to pay for his infantile irresponsible idiocy!?

Don't forget that we all need STD coverage too. Because you have no control over whether you suddenly become a trashy idiotic whore tomorrow. No way you could make good decisions to avoid that. Better pay up to be safe. Better pay up to socialize the costs of other people's bad decisions, just as in the case with Joe.

God forbid we grow up and become adults who understand that our decisions have consequences and take responsibility for our own lives. It's not like we're human beings with limitless potential. It's not like we're sovereign members of a democratic republic in which the people ultimately control their own fates.

Then we wouldn't be as good of livestock to be milked for the profits of our labor. Then we'd be harder to control.

My model is Health Savings Accounts and would eliminate ALL of this mess

I propose to let doctors charge people whatever they want and not pay income tax on it.
And people can deduct 100% of their medical expenses.
And a doctor will get reimbursed by Medicare what Medicare says, but he can charge a different price for cash.

Because that's what's killing us, the idea that Shoeless Joe the Hobo can get his wisdom teeth out for $1111, and Medicare pays for that, and that's the same price Bill Gates must pay. 

Instead of making 30,000 people pay 100% of the operating costs with their procedures let them charge Bill Gates 50% of the hospital's budget to have that bump on his ass looked at.

How is that socializing the cost of care? Soaking rich customers is pure capitalism

Every business owner has to sharpen a pencil and figure how many sales he has to make at a given price to know if it will make the business pay, that's all I'm saying

The costs at Krogers are "socialized" then. 

Everybody hitches the price to demand in order to meet costs.

Mature, responsible, healthy people would be an enormous drain on the system because they use it more.  That's why they're responsible.  That's why they're healthy. 

Obama has said it straight out only people don't want to condemn their Messiah:  your options will be limited and you won't get all the care you thought you could.  You'll die broken.  Your doctors will guess more.   You won't get the painkiller.  It's a good thing!

Out of curiosity, where do you go if you have a serious car accident?

But I need massage, regular exercise, I need to monitor my cholesterol, check my iron content, I need the flu vaccine every time they mention it, I need to have that bump looked at, I need my teeth cleaned and bonded and straightened and my eyes fixed up with laser surgery.  And we should all have a colonic every year.   That bout of diarrhea could be e coli.  That can't be overlooked.

Well I'm 38, I haven't had a full blood panel EVER cause it's like $2000, same with a colonic, I don't bother going to have my throat checked when I have a week of fever since I paid $78 to be told I was sick, I get my eyes checked every 3 years, I don't have a regular doctor or an annual physical.  I don't belong to a gym anymore, I don't have a massage therapist or a chiropractor anymore.  I haven't consulted as to a healthy diet or consulted a physician before beginning a regimen of exercise.

Healthy people use the system MORE. A lot MORE than Not At All.