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Topic: non-agressive takeovers

This is slightly related to this thread: http://imperialconflict.com/forum/viewt … ?id=182134

but a little more broad in its scope.  I think the thread above could fall within what I am describing here.


Currently there are a few scenarios in which taking over a planet is part of a non-agressive scenario:

1) intra-family trades
2) intra-alliance trades
3) DPA agreements between other families for core agreements or compensation

The game unfortunately does not do the best job in handling any of these.  You have to remove lasers which makes sense for #3 but doesn't really make sense for #1 and #2.  Also, as the thread linked above mentioned there is also the NW restrictions that take place which is silly given that those were meant to protect you, not get in the way of teamwork or diplomacy.

Then there's also the realism aspect, in that if you were taking part in some kind of trade then any defending units would/should know that the incoming fleet is not hostile.  That is, they shouldn't fight back.  Here's what I propose:

On any given planet you can click a new link that says "enact trade" or some other wording if you guys can think of a better sounding phrase.  When you click that link, you are allowed to add any amount of players from any family to a "approved trade list" for that planet which means that your lasers and your fleet will not defend from incoming attacks for any empires on that list.  Not only that, but all NW rules would be ignored meaning anybody could take the planet regardless of size, no infra would ever be lost, and no planets would ever be blown up and have to be re-explored.  As a convenience, you could also add entire families in 1 click to this list.  You could then remove specific players if you don't trust them or if they are rogue or something.

Ideally, we'd also add this as a button for the planet list page so you could do many planets at once.


As far as specific details, if/when a takeover fleet does arrive, any portal is automatically deactivated (razed) as it was integrated into the host empire and can no longer be used.  Any stationed fleet from the host empire now automatically leaves the planet.  There are no casualties from either side.  The takeover fleet is now automatically stationed on the planet and from this point things behave as they do currently.

The goal here is to make coordination easier.  Right now we have many restrictions in place that are meant to keep things balanced, but often they also get in the way.  There's no reason why we can't have more granular control over these things in a more realistic and logical setting.


What do you guys think?  Are there any reasons not to do this?

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  • IMLC
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Re: non-agressive takeovers

So family A wants to pass to family B all fleets leave and portal is razed then family C comes in and takes a free planet.

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3 Reply by ]PW[ Forever (edited by ]PW[ Forever 05-Mar-2013 02:26:05)

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

If they're not on the "Enact Trade List" then it's just a normal attack.


I like it, I'd like to be able to "turn off lasers" too, so scenarios like the one above isn't as easy as IMLC makes it sound, you'd obviously send some sort of Fleet to "take-over" the planet as well.

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

i kind of like it but i think it will be exploited. Big fam has someone sit on their home planet most of the round with full RC's at 97% con bonus simply being a building mule. They own 100 trannies, 200 soldiers and 500 RC's and thats it. All they do for nearly the entire round is pass planets then they get jumped at eor at the 97% con bonus and build 900mil figs or something.

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

Umm you can do that now, and if someone wants to Jump 900mil figs for an EOR jump who cares? Planets win the round, not NWs.

~*✠ ]PW[ Forever ✠*~

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

IMLC wrote:

So family A wants to pass to family B all fleets leave and portal is razed then family C comes in and takes a free planet.

~* Darth Vader is correct.  For any players not on this list, your fleet will behave exactly as it does now.

Flymzee wrote:

i kind of like it but i think it will be exploited. Big fam has someone sit on their home planet most of the round with full RC's at 97% con bonus simply being a building mule. They own 100 trannies, 200 soldiers and 500 RC's and thats it. All they do for nearly the entire round is pass planets then they get jumped at eor at the 97% con bonus and build 900mil figs or something.

I agree that this scenario would be a problem, and I'm glad you mentioned that.  However, I think that problem has more to do with research jumping than it does planet passing.  I propose that we fix this by putting some kind of counter-balance to construction bonus jumpers.  I don't know what that balance is yet, but I think that would be the most appropriate solution.

I would say that before this idea could be implemented that we would have to solve that problem first, and roll them out together.

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

~* Darth Vader wrote:

Umm you can do that now, and if someone wants to Jump 900mil figs for an EOR jump who cares? Planets win the round, not NWs.

You can exploit construction bonuses now yes, but he is right this will make it even easier.  We'd have to at least consider what it means to facilitate that style of play.

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

Flymzee wrote:

i kind of like it but i think it will be exploited. Big fam has someone sit on their home planet most of the round with full RC's at 97% con bonus simply being a building mule. They own 100 trannies, 200 soldiers and 500 RC's and thats it. All they do for nearly the entire round is pass planets then they get jumped at eor at the 97% con bonus and build 900mil figs or something.

I understand what you are getting at, but this is a scenario we already have. The only difference would be that now when building the infra they could stay a lot smaller, meaning that the resources that a family have put into building all of those fresh planets wouldn't be wasted. I can see some possible exploitation, but I can see huge advantages in terms of the level of cooperation a family would need to be able to bring that off and the fact that even a small family getting smashed could use this technique to get themselves out of a bit of trouble, passing to allies for war strategically.

To elaborate on the second, Fams A and B are allied, Fam a and b are nap'd to C. C is twice the nw of a and b, but decide to cancel on a to have a war. Now normally there is the whole argument over who is dishonourable, the two that invariably fight 1 or the 1 that is twice the size cancelling. In this case A can go, "fine you can have your war," and pass all of their banker planets to B. When C comes to fight A all they will be able to see are attackers planets and they will still have an NAP with B. Adds a whole new level of strategy.

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

Gwynedd wrote:

I can see huge advantages in terms of the level of cooperation a family would need to be able to bring that off and the fact that even a small family getting smashed could use this technique to get themselves out of a bit of trouble, passing to allies for war strategically.

That's a great point actually.  Perhaps this wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Gwynedd wrote:

A can go, "fine you can have your war," and pass all of their banker planets to B. When C comes to fight A all they will be able to see are attackers planets and they will still have an NAP with B. Adds a whole new level of strategy.

That's pretty clever.  I can see some people really hating this but it would be another tool in our collective strategic tool belts.  This could also make allies a more important part of the game again.

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10 Reply by ]PW[ Forever (edited by ]PW[ Forever 05-Mar-2013 02:25:24)

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

I like pie wrote:
~* Darth Vader wrote:

Umm you can do that now, and if someone wants to Jump 900mil figs for an EOR jump who cares? Planets win the round, not NWs.

You can exploit construction bonuses now yes, but he is right this will make it even easier.  We'd have to at least consider what it means to facilitate that style of play.



Yes I agree, but you can do that now, the problem with it is travel times (having one planet in your HS) etc, it sounds like it could be exploited yes, but then why haven't the top fams been doing that? because it's not as easy as it sounds.. imo.

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

Gwynedd wrote:

Adds a whole new level of strategy.


yes, yes, yes.

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

True enough, doing so would still require a fair amount of coordination as well as somebody sacrificing their entire round to be a little guy.  I didn't think about travel times either, you're right that would make it more difficult than it may sound.

Great points everybody!  Keep em comin!

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

Oh and I think the turning off lasers thing should ONLY be between Fam members and not Allies. I wouldn't want to be NAP'ed to someone who's laser trapping a planet just for their Ally (whom I'm not NAP'ed to) to take it and rape me.. smile

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

Hmmm that seems like that would be along with Gwynedd's point, regarding rewarding coordination.  I do see the potential to be frustrated by this, but seems like part of the game imo.

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

So since its a non aggressive takeover there shouldn't be a morale loss.

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

indeed.  good point

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

agreed with the no morale loss. should the soldier not die of stress also?

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

haha good question.  i suppose not.  how funny

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

this IS true, we have this already, however it makes it EASIER. Short of an essay, without the 35% rule in place, your 15mil NW pop banker can get 30 planets per day or whatever his morale allows FB to 700% with barely any cost at all. Yes you can still do this now, but it requires a hell of a lot more resources to get to that point.

Woe to You Oh Earth and Sea. For the Devil sends the beast with wrath. Because he knows the time is short. Let him who have understanding, reckon the number of the beast. For it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty six.
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Re: non-agressive takeovers

love this idea. make it happen asap.

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

this needs to be done. the current system was a step forward but not nearly enough.

Solis - #7872

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

No tag points for anyone contributing to this idea X(

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

when these planets are passed. would population start over, after all its non-agressive, thus adding a sick level to pop bank jumping tongue?
also you may be promoting a whole new level to laser trapping. where smaller players would swap laser traps to keep con bonuses high.

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

perhaps if this was implimented there could be a warning page stating when the target planet appears hostile. when planet swapping intra family.

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Re: non-agressive takeovers

No morale loss, buildings taken over intact, lasers don't shoot, no defense at all.

But at the same time full defense vs anybody NOT on the list.

I agree absolutely with Darth. This will support highly specialized roles in families to an extent that everybody MUST do it.

Planetswapping from attacker to banker will be easier and safer.
In good organized families only the "Builder" will construct buildings (as described by Darth: small, high con research). This is not optional. Good families will feel forced to use a "Builder" and bankers won't be allowed to build anything after the first or second (real) week, too expensive.
NAPs paid in planets, wars paid off in planets... all this much easier.

Mmmh, do you really want this?

-----------------

@Pie, many of your improvments I see here and in other threads support and make it easier to play IC in a certain way: in specialized roles, highly organized teams, gaming stramlined to win the game regardless wether it makes fun.

Are you really sure that you want to go this way? If yes, fine. If not, o the horror, this changes lead into a very different way then.

Most of the things which are such a hassle to do in IC are such a hassle because they were never meant to be an important part of the game (or more likely never thought of that it could be a good tactic to play in such a weird way).

My hope always was that some active devs might come and work along the lines, what changes must we do to have more fun playing a wargame again... at the moment it sometimes looks as if it is rather: this way of playing doesn't make fun but how can it done with the least hassle? You know what I mean? Before you make a multitude of changes, I really think, you/Mods/Stefan/players need to decide in which direction IC should develop. For every change there must be the question answered: Does this change support what we think important and outstanding of IC, where we want it to go to? First you need to define what is important, outstanding., what's the way to go.

Without such answeres, many changes will be contradicting.

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