Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

It occurred to me yesterday that it is a bit unrealistic that fleets can hover over a planet without anybody being aware.  What would you guys think of adding an additional news item: notifying players of enemy presence.

If Player_A sends a fleet to Player_B's planet, once the fleet arrives Player_B will get a news item before the attack even happens.  This would give Player_B the opportunity to do several things:

1) Attack the hovering fleet first

2) Hide his own fleet

3) Notify family member(s)

If the family member(s) have a portal in the same system, they would be able to also attack this hovering fleet.  Intra-system travel is 0 tickets anyway right?

I think this could add a very interesting element to attacking in IC, and might be enough to shake up the current game altogether and place a higher importance on teamwork.  Thoughts?

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Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

Worst idea ever.  This would reduce teamwork in attacking, not increase it.

You have now been infected with Bird flu. Good day.


~Testudinae~

Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

How so?

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Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

I suggested something simular About a year ago

Make it an op or spell and make du Able to hit hovering fleets

Dutch bastard

Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

Also, the idea is to benefit the defender, not the attacker.  It would reward teamwork for families that are being attacked, not the families that are doing the attacking.  For them, this won't change much other than the fact that they won't be able to send fleets and just go to bed.  Rather, as soon as their fleets arrive they better be ready to attack.  Makes more sense to me really.

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Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

Because the current player base is lazy and not as reliable as in the past, If you wanted to raid someone, you often have fleets arriving at different times and some attackers arriving first and waiting for others.  This would now give way too much warning to the family being attacked to take the fleets out and build more fleet.   Also when in a cancellation war and the time is up, this would give away activity on fighter runs and hovering ground attacks.  By adding more silly things like this idea, it is only going to make some of the very few players that decide to attack anymore to be lazy about it and not do it.

You have now been infected with Bird flu. Good day.


~Testudinae~

Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

No reason to fix something that isn't broken.  Families being attacked don't need more benefits like this, They need to learn how to play and prevent them that way rather than added ingame things.

You have now been infected with Bird flu. Good day.


~Testudinae~

Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

so... you could send figs newtons up to stop them? or do droids get flying powers and get some action? also how would this fighting order go?

you send fighters(since bombers transports and ground are useless from what i assume)
and they fight thier fighters, then bombers, then transports? as no ground would be outside of transports

do NW resrictions and morale costs apply the same way?

also this reduces the importance of infils by a bit.

and last i fear that this can be abused with a bit of programming making auto-hide, attack options now possible.

perhaps this could be an op or ability given to resource,banker rolls at some sort of cost. with a difficulty to cast much higher than most self opps. so that it is only worth while durring war time.
also is this a granted gift or casted? i find it hard to beleive that every attack is seen in time to send a distress signal and call for help

also what happens if you win? the attacking fleet leaves without ever hitting the planet fleet? it stays there? when you loose the fleet stays there for another wave of attacks?

this would make people have to be awake the tic that thier fleet arrives, reducing the chance thier fleet will e hovering and leaving thier ports open to attack.

Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

this would heavily reduce raids, as splitting up fleet or as pointed out fleet arriving at different times is now subject to rape. we would see much more infra whoring, possibly the extinction of lasers almost entirely as it would be much more effective to "attack" offensive fleet

Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

Yeah it would be an air fight.  As for what happens after, I'd imagine the attacking fleet would remain hovering, though in a very diminished state.  It would be up to the attacker at this point to decide if he wants to stil attack or would rather keep going.

That does bring up another idea though: the ability to move fleets to systems instead of planets.  In the example above the player could move his now-diminished fleet to a nearby system while he sends another reinforcement fleet to the same system.  This would favor attackers.

Speaking of that, dfsf I think you do have valid concerns but I don't agree that the current system "isn't broken".  Things are stale, and I think there's an opportunity for improvement that could make things less stale if we can just figure out the details.  IC's attacking is fun, but it is not perfect by any means.  I think part of the problem with this game is that everything is so planet-focused when things can and perhaps should be happening outside of the planet.

An improvement on my original post here:  What if instead of being able to detect enemy fleets over your planet by default, you could detect any fleets in your system but only through a special op, as twosidedeath mentions.  So the example would then be:


Player_A sends a fleet to Player_B's planet 3 in system 1:2, and things work how they currently do.
Anybody in system 1:2, regardless of family, can cast a spell (if they have it) to see if what fleets are in their system.  They would see Player_A's fleet.
Anybody who has this information can attack Player_A's fleet.

If Player_A has his fleet attacked, he can move it to another system.  Whoever attacked him wouldn't know whether this is a complete recall or if Player_A just moved it 1 tick away.  Meanwhile, Player_A can send in a replenishing fleet and then merge it with his original fleet.  Perhaps even as a counter-balance, Player_A would be able to cast a temporary cloaking spell on his fleet (if he has it).


What I'm suggesting is essentially the introduction of war on a system level instead of just a planet level.  It give systems a much higher purpose in the game, and allowing fleets to go to systems instead of just planets would allow for some very creative (and possibly sneaky) war planning.  On top of all that, families on the defense would be able to help each other out more than they currently are able to.

Better for attackers, better for defenders, and the current stale formula that everybody follows is turned on its head.

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Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

I just think that your revision there would be rarely used and not worth bothering with.  No one is going to want to cast the op on every system to figure out where a player will be raided at lol. 

I understand what you want to do as far as moving the attacking focus to a system rather than planets but it is still going to be ultimately about the planets and you can't focus on every system so it really would not do anything to help.  There are too many systems that come into conflict at a time for your idea to be viable.

The idea that aspects are stale is not the real problem with the game in it's current form.  The main issue is competition and poor handling by mod's of major round issues like this round in MW, Whiteshadow should be banned from the game for his illegal alliance with his son that resulted in ruining a whole round's competition in the end.  It wasn't a war, it wasn't anything strategic, it was just plain cheating.  The same thing a few rounds back when teddy attacked his own ally.  Things like that should be handled in interest of the game but instead you have players who get banned just because mods don't like the person and not because of actions that screw up the round as a whole.   The other issue is there needs to be no drafting as well as a limit on deletes during a round to stop players from trying to random around to form super families.

You limit the pure dishonorable actions, You remove the drafts, and You remove the ability to delete more than once, and you will see more competitive rounds in most cases.

You have now been infected with Bird flu. Good day.


~Testudinae~

Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

Some of the new changes are nice, but others are not.   You can try to add bells and whistles to cover up real issues but in the end it's not going to fix anything.  You have to fix the real issues at hand.

You have now been infected with Bird flu. Good day.


~Testudinae~

Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

I can tell you up front the mods don't ban people just for disliking them.  If that were the case I'd have less interest in improving the game.

Anyway, I think you're missing the point on my last revision.  It's not to see where a player will be raided at, it's to see if anybody is there at all.  In conjunction with the ability for others to send fleets to systems instead of just planets makes it very useful.  If the concern is that it's not going to be beneficial enough to bother with then we just adjust to offer more gain.  There's nothing we can't do to find a balance, we just have to be constructive and creative instead of thinking "that's dumb.  that won't work.  worst idea ever".

"There are too many systems that come into conflict at a time for your idea to be viable."

An adjustment to consider:  Instead of a specific system op, it could be a 1-use op for any systems the player is in.  This would make it very powerful but still would require somebody to actually have it as an op and to actually be online to use it.  It would also give even more reason for bankers to get their attackers into their systems.  Yet another win for teamwork.


By the way, the mods are the reason the game is going at all.  If not for them, we wouldn't just have an even more stale game, we would likely have no game.  I can't fault people for not understanding all the work the mods do but I can fault them for saying they are the problem with the game.  They're an easy target because people often disagree with their decisions but remember they, like we devs, work on donated time.  They are far more fair and helpful than they need to be.

Also, if cheating is a problem, that's something that's at least partially the result of flawed game design.  That's why I'm looking at things like this, because if the current design lends itself to cheating then we should perhaps look at what can be changed about the current design.  Would this idea stop cheating?  Probably not, but making the game less formulaic would at least make cheating more difficult.

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Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

The attacking mechanics of a war game are hardly "bells and whistles".  The are at the heart of gameplay.

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Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

what about infils?

Destination reached
One of our fleets has reached its destination for attack on planet A in the B:C system.

Rchie

Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

That serves a similar purpose, but from the other direction.  I don't necessarily know who might be entering my systems, so I wouldn't know who to infil.  Plus this would be for fleet-specific information from potentially numerous empires rather than multiple types of information from only one.

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Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

Playing other games having this info is nice


but you are also in bigger " familys" with extra help yikes

[13:43] <@RisingDown> never thought i'd say it, but TBO actually did something useful.
[13:43] <@arsy> dont let him see you say that
[13:43] <@RisingDown> oh shit
[13:43] * You were kicked from #room by arsy (kapow!)

Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

make this an op that lasts for 5-6 tics and is fleet hovering in the systems that player is in. this would be stationed fleet, hovering.

add a second side to this to make it more useful. add the option to station fleet for defence of a system. this stationed fleet would be the first phase before getting to a planet. this would allow attackers to dirrectly defend infra players. it would be similar to a DS. this gives large reason to have the new op.

Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

also simply sending fleet and not triggering would be a way to run these defending figs, these figs are specific to the picked system(s) stationing would cost the same as an attack, simply sending 1 fig would quickly tell you if figs are stationed in that system

finally perhaps DU on a planet in that system should include these units (with the chance of hitting soldiers, droids, ect. which would be a complete miss)

20

Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

dont touch this, please yikes

it is not a minor change, it would affect to the heart of the game and requires further discussion, it is not a slight improvement and there's no reason to do it. There's no issue to be fizzed.

Waht's wrong with the current??  let me tell you how it works and why 'hovering' fleets are suposedly not seen:

"The fleets moving from one system to another system in a galazy they do it by creating 'wormholes' in the blank space, and the ETA is only an approachment of the minimum time for arrival, but the fleets can stay inside the wormhole as long as they need to.  When they finally decide to get out of the wormhole they're settled in the borders of the destination system, so they aren't really hovering a planet, that's wrong, they are hovering a system.
If an alien race wanted to attack the Earth from the outer space they'd be seen in the outskirts of Uranus or Pluton by an astronomic observatory, then we'd send a fleet to defend our planet before they arrive our orbit.
The fleets meet at midway in the orbit of Jupiter but the bombers have already sent their missiles to our defending lasers (notice we aint talking about common bombers). The airfight happens in the orbit of Jupiter and the remaining transports move along the system until they reach our orbit, then our remaining lasers hit some of them and the others land in our planet (ground battle)."

So fleets hovering a planet is a wrong concept, you can never know they're in a wormhole ready to hover your system, and this is perfectly correct because when you have a DS in that system, the attacking forces are hit by a defensive shield just after getting out of the wormhole.


Now do you want a new op??? 'Detect Wormhole'  it tells you which of your systems have an opened wormhole, this means enemy troops are moving thru that wormhole to attack one or more planets in that system (there's no way to know which planet). You can neither know the ETA, so what's the purpose of this op? well you can increase defenses, station units or even move the DS....now really, is this worth??  hmm

Re: Enemy Fleet Detection / Attacking Hovering Fleets

wormhole, system, the concept is basically the same. as you point out with the DS. i wouldnt want to see this as a common thing or in all the galaxies, i would like to see a test galaxy, or a "flavor of the month" sorta thing where people bored with the general system in milky way, PW, can go here and enjoy some crazy new concepts. any galaxy that is liked a lot can be brough back a few times.