Re: Fiscal Cliff

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_fiscal_cliff"

What do you think the result will be if it happens?

Re: Fiscal Cliff

GLOBAL RECESSION


which was happenening anyhow.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Fiscal Cliff

taxes on "the rich" go up, which is everybody.  People earning $20k - $40k will owe $1200 a year more, which means $100 a month additional withholding.
unemployment is cut off at 26 weeks.
death taxes back to 55% for estates totaling $1 million. That's most ranches.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Fiscal Cliff

more fornicating from coked up liberal sluts on free medicare

qsudifhkqsdhfmsklfhjqmlsdfhjqkmsldfhjmqklsfhmqlsfhjqmsklfhqmskjdfhqsfq
sdffdgjfhjdfhgjhsfsdfqgsbsthzgflqkcgjhkgfjnbkmzghkmqrghqmskdghqkmsghnvhdf
qmkjghqmksdjqlskhqkmsdhqmskfhjqmskjdfhqkmsdfjhqmskfhjqkmsjdfhqkm
sjfhqkmsjfhqkmsjfhkqmjsfhqksdjmfhqksjfhqskjdfhnbwfjgqreutyhaerithgfqsd
kjnqsdfqsdfqsdfmkjqhgmkjnqsgkjmhzdflmghjsmdlghjsmdkghmqksdjghq

Re: Fiscal Cliff

hey that's their right!! just ask Obama

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Fiscal Cliff

they should fornicate with good upstanding citizens like me, I would pay for both their birth control AND their coke out of my own pocket.

qsudifhkqsdhfmsklfhjqmlsdfhjqkmsldfhjmqklsfhmqlsfhjqmsklfhqmskjdfhqsfq
sdffdgjfhjdfhgjhsfsdfqgsbsthzgflqkcgjhkgfjnbkmzghkmqrghqmskdghqkmsghnvhdf
qmkjghqmksdjqlskhqkmsdhqmskfhjqmskjdfhqkmsdfjhqmskfhjqkmsjdfhqkm
sjfhqkmsjfhqkmsjfhkqmjsfhqksdjmfhqksjfhqskjdfhnbwfjgqreutyhaerithgfqsd
kjnqsdfqsdfqsdfmkjqhgmkjnqsgkjmhzdflmghjsmdlghjsmdkghmqksdjghq

Re: Fiscal Cliff

https://evisaforms.state.gov/ds156.asp

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

8 (edited by Justinian I 28-Dec-2012 05:42:05)

Re: Fiscal Cliff

What I hate about estate taxes is that the lower rich and upper middle class pay it, but the super rich pay very little. For example, the Walton family. It's such bs that, counter to its intended goal, perpetuates class divisions.

9 (edited by V. Kemp 28-Dec-2012 09:17:37)

Re: Fiscal Cliff

That's why the Estate tax exists. That's why the Federal Reserve exists. That's why our tax code is structured as it is.

They keep the working working as long as possible, as much as possible, and tax that work (and subsequent purchases with earnings) as much as possible. They tax the estates of the working (not the wealthy) so very high to keep them poor and working.

You're slaves. We're slaves. And everyone who votes Republican or Democrat is a willful one at that. The system is designed to keep you working--and working largely for government. The system is also designed to collapse, which will be used to justify expansion of government power farther beyond the Constitution than is already gotten away with. It will also be used as an excuse to explain why people have the lower standard of living which will inevitably follow their decreased freedoms.

They intend to crash our markets and economy by completely messing up our once freer markets, then blame the crash on free markets. They already did this with the "financial" crisis and the rhetoric continues to this day. You can watch exactly what I'm talking about because it's happening right now and will continue to. We know that the federal government was the source of the systematic failures which resulted in the crisis, but they all blame freedom and greed. And enough people are ignorant that it works and they gain more power through their crashing markets, harming the middle class, and dishonest rhetoric.

The "Fiscal Cliff" is just a bonus to our overlords. Large tax increases and spending "cuts" (largely military, which they don't care about) which have already been more than made up for (and will continue to be) with recent increases in spending. It's more of what they've been working at for decades sooner.

None of this should surprise anyone.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Fiscal Cliff

spock +1
*LP tries to do the vulcan hand thing*

11 (edited by V. Kemp 28-Dec-2012 15:28:07)

Re: Fiscal Cliff

None of this stuff is a secret. We know that Hilary Clinton studied radicals who openly spoke about and published literature on revolution, collapsing economies/governments, and expanding government control without limits (aka squashing rights/freedom)--even, specifically, how to subvert written law (constitutions+other) in order to achieve this end despite the detriment of existing law prohibiting it.

And Barack Obama won't let us see his academic records. I'll wager he studied all of the same revolutionaries and more, and that's why we're not allowed to know.

None of this is a secret, it's just complicated enough that the average American doesn't care enough to learn anything about it.

Our media is complicit in pretending there's nothing to see behind the curtain. This includes Fox News. Anyone pretending Fox News is diametrically opposed to Democrats/Socialists and more dishonest than the other news outlets is just an ignorant socialist/communist not satisfied with the rate of socialization of Amerika and not aware that Fox News is in on the game, just like Republicans. They both exist to seem like the lesser evil to people who don't want socialism. Our political elite have known Amerikans will settle for the lesser evil for decades, and evil's just what we've gotten.

Already unmanageable debt and interest draining our standard of living, sure to hurt our children even more? Already got that. Spending exploding even MORE, despite our debt? Still doing that too.

This is not sustainable. It's already going to hurt, and every month/year we delay dealing with it will just make the pain worse. As I said, none of this is a secret. But our leaders want the pain and they want it to be bad. They want more power now for its own sake and to facilitate the crash, and they're going to use the crash (which they're causing) as a justification to grab even more power.

If the American people remain so ignorant of these not-secret facts, it will work too.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Fiscal Cliff

This supposed fiscal cliff represents a tiny amount of the American economy. It perhaps writes off one year's differential of economic growth.

Re: Fiscal Cliff

Going off Fiscal Cliff ruins US recovery without stopgap measures...and the day after New Years World markets tumble because we played politics with people's livelihoods sad #angryuscitizen

Re: Fiscal Cliff

It womt be that bad.

It is better that we learn, as a nation, to live within our means and not buy expensive toys nonstop

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Fiscal Cliff

I think Kemp is actually Alex Jones.

Or maybe David Icke.

Re: Fiscal Cliff

GreatnessIncarnate,

What US recovery? By most measures this is the slowest recovery in US history. By some measures we've not recovered at all. The dollar is worth less. More people are unemployed (not the unemployment rate: it's an intentionally inaccurate misrepresentation of unemployment). The average salary has gone down. (Combine this with inflation for a double-whammy).


[TI] ARFeh zee Frenchie,

Care to dispute anything I said? Or just spam?

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Fiscal Cliff

"Rare footage of Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke as a small child"

http://i.imgur.com/XaiUx.gif

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Fiscal Cliff

^Lmao

Things intended to fix the economy haven't worked... perhaps something intended to damage the economy will.  All I know is I am going to be buying up some stock if we do go off the cliff.

Never rule out the possibility that you are a complete idiot

19 (edited by V. Kemp 29-Dec-2012 23:32:17)

Re: Fiscal Cliff

Nothing done has been intended to fix the economy.

"Stimulus"? You believed them when they said "We're experts and we know what will help the economy! CENTRAL PLANNING!"?

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Fiscal Cliff

Actually, Obama's stimulus wasn't enough. The Republicans would only allow a stimulus large enough to avoid a catastrophe, but not get us out of the recession. It's politically motivated.

Re: Fiscal Cliff

Lol

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Fiscal Cliff

> [PW2] PICKLE ARMY wrote:

> ^Lmao

Things intended to fix the economy haven't worked... perhaps something intended to damage the economy will.  All I know is I am going to be buying up some stock if we do go off the cliff.



I hope you don't fix cars for a living!

"Hmm... okay, so fixing the breaks didn't solve the problem.  Repairing the steering didn't solve the problem.  Maybe if we hit it with a freight train, the car will work!"

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Fiscal Cliff

Justinian I,

Do you have examples of central planning motivating economic growth? More economic growth than capitalist competitors? For someone who claims to be an empiricist, you're quick to give faith to big government ideology which has nothing but a 100% failure rate around the world for the past half century plus.

There's massive amounts of data that central planning is never "enough" to compete with natural capitalist recoveries and growth. There's nothing but your overlords' word saying that the "stimulus" would have worked if it was bigger... Yet you side with your overlords against 100% of empirical data. Fascinating.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

24 (edited by Justinian I 30-Dec-2012 02:30:59)

Re: Fiscal Cliff

Kemp,

You're conflating fiscal or monetary policy with central planning. That fiscal and monetary policy work doesn't need proof because it's established macro economics 101. It's like asking for proof that WW2 happened.

That said, I agree with Milton Friedman that government spending is likely to be the least effective. A more effective fiscal solution would be to increase consumer spending by reducing taxes on the working and middle classes. And if further government spending is to be used, it ought to be spent on debt relief.

Also, the Republican idea of reducing taxes on the rich is dumb because the economy is driven by the demand side and not the supply side.

25 (edited by V. Kemp 30-Dec-2012 11:16:59)

Re: Fiscal Cliff

"You're conflating fiscal or monetary policy with central planning. That fiscal and monetary policy work doesn't need proof because it's established macro economics 101. It's like asking for proof that WW2 happened."

Awww an appeal to authority! I suppose the money directs itself, so you have no need to explain how it's not central planning for government to tax people and spend their money! Err, wait. That's a cop-out because it is central planning but that's inconvenient for you to address in any way.

"A more effective fiscal solution would be to increase consumer spending by reducing taxes on the working and middle classes."

I see you've bought into all the garbage academics about "consumer-driven economies." Look up "capitalism" and learn how production drives everything, from high quality, low prices, and wages for the middle class which increase consumer spending. All of this government-knows-best-my-teacher-told-me-so BS makes me sick.

"Also, the Republican idea of reducing taxes on the rich is dumb because the economy is driven by the demand side and not the supply side."

Complete nonsense. Demand does't drive down prices, resulting in a higher standard of living for all. Demand doesn't produce anything or pay wages--Production pays wages, resulting in demand.

Follow that to its logical end. Demand drives economies? Can you even say that with a straight face? Every impoverished nation has tons of demand. Why doesn't it drive their economies? They could print money like you're proposing we do. Why doesn't it work for them, but you propose it would work for us?

All of this wizard-atop-a-tower stuff, magic trick nonsense needs to stop. No clever trick of self-proclaimed genius academics changes basic physics or reality. Neither printing money nor taxing the hell out of an economy in order to spend it via central planning has ever produced prosperity, let alone more than it would have left in the hands of those who earned it.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]