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Imperial Forum → Politics → Obama is the greatest president of all time
> Captain Apollo wrote:
> That's good i love that show. wonder if obama does???
Of course he does. Best president of all time loves the best show of all time.
Stargate is best franchise of all time. BSG a distant second.
Chomp has the FACTS
you don't recognize teh awesom of his FACTS
giving them to you is like throwinign them AWAY
SO YOU DONT GET THEM
I love fascism. Obama's pretty awesome.
"Oh wait. Math is hard for Liberals. The lack of a brain or independent thought impedes them from realizing this."
Oh come on, what are you in elementary school? How can anybody take you seriously with useless comments like this?
Also, your bit about the Obama administration being full of lies is hilarious. Need you be reminded that the Bush administration WENT TO WAR with another country under false pretense (wmd) and when none were found, conveniently spun the invasion as "Operation Iraqi Freedom"? Sending your own citizens to their death while lying about the justification is about as dishonest as an administration can get.
Sorry Pie but every time an Obamabot mentions Bush debt they will ignore, at any cost, the spending by Obama or justify it.
As for the WMD claim. I will make another thread on it tomorrow. To much time to use while I am driving.
I have no comment on the debt because I know enough to know that I don't know enough to have a valid argument one way or another. Unlike some, I won't talk about something if I am not versed in the details. =P
What I do know is that people complaining about a dishonest administration seem to have very conveniently forgotten recent history. But yes, let's continue that in another thread.
@ILP
True or not, if Bush lied it only says something about Bush. Its no excuse for this president.
@COT
You could debate whether or not it was necessary but Obama spend much much more bush ever did in a shorter term inflation included. If you're disputing this I'm prepared to go to the boring task of looking sources up again and post them, but I bet you know this.
> Captain Apollo wrote:
> Stargate is best franchise of all time. BSG a distant second.
Wow, I really need to watch me some Stargate then 
Lol i love the drama only flint can bring to any thread
he must be one of the greatest presidents of all time. he did win the nobel peace prize after all
You could debate whether or not it was necessary but Obama spend much much more bush ever did in a shorter term inflation included. If you're disputing this I'm prepared to go to the boring task of looking sources up again and post them, but I bet you know this.
obama was facing a two war front, collapsing economy and the piling failed policies of bush, where bush STARTED the bailout plan but obama finished it. btw the govt. made a large profit on the AIG shares they purchased.
the job losses all happened right after the bush administration, any logical sense would conclude that they were results of bush's policies, the last 3 years have seen small but constant job growth.
with the QE policy in effect we cannot expect a fast recovery. it simply draws out the whole process. also we have seen major reform to "too big to fail" partnered with UK in regulators liquidating powers.
twosidedeath,
This is the slowest recovery the USA has ever experienced. The argument that big government bailouts and central planning are beneficial to economies is laughable.
And the New Deal saved us from the Depression! Hahahahahahaha! Good one.
![[PW2] PICKLE ARMY](https://imperialconflict.com/forum/img/avatars/909.gif){kind=small}
Mister Spock may you please lend us your intra-dimension travel capsul so we may too see what the economy would look like right now had the government not made efforts to avoid a probable depression in the demension you are referring to?
What efforts did it make to avoid a probable depression?
Dodd-Frank makes the systemic banking problem (which government is responsible for via Fed policies) which caused the meltdown worse. Now big banks get cheaper rates because they're more likely to be bailed out, making "too big to fail" worse and even encouraged by our government.
QE just enriches bankers. Sure, stocks are buoyed for a time; but far more wealth is lost to the inflation caused by these policies than is preserved in those stock prices.
"Stimulus" has been a colossal failure. The list of hundreds of billions in waste is literally too long to post here. All of the wasted money is money taxed out of the economy, one way or another, and not spent rewarding the productive and innovative.
And why are you ignoring the fact that this is the slowest recovery in the history of our nation (slower than every recovery without government "help")?
http://www.cfr.org/geoeconomics/quarterly-update-us-economic-recovery-historical-context/p25774
So... what exactly are you crediting government for? Which actions do you believe prevented a depression? I know they tell you that everything they do is necessary. But that's how we've reached 16 trillion in debt, invaded foreign nations which were absolutely no threat to us, and lost many civil liberties over the years. Because they lie to you. And you believe it.
What has government done to help you over this period, other than make everything you buy more expensive and reduce growth/hiring? Oh wait, that's not helpful to a recovery; that harms it.
Government spending and taxation has harmed our recovery. What, specifically, do you give them credit for which has aided it? What indicators do you look at in arriving at the conclusion that current government taxation and spending is beneficial to our recovery? (as opposed to the lovely graphs I have referenced) Do you have other examples of central planning benefiting economies? I'll wager I could find a few examples of it failing and hurting people.
Obama lies because he tells lies.
If you want to pretned that Bush's lies cancel out Obama's lies, Let me introduce Nixons lies, LBJ's lies, FDR's joke about the Doolittle Raid coming from "our secret base on Shangri La" that got 100,000 Chinese killed by the Japanese army, and Reagan's failure to recall Iran-Contra. I don't know whether they all count against' Obama's lies or not, because I don't play that game. I think a lie is a lie is a lie, and the high point of the Obama Admin was when Joe Wilson shut him up in mid stream with YOU LIE.
Obama knowingly makes false statements with the intent to mislead.
Yell,
Politician: Professional Liar
"obama was facing a two war front, collapsing economy and the piling failed policies of bush, where bush STARTED the bailout plan but obama finished it."
The bad econ was caused by an increase in energy prices. The bursting bubbles where only symptoms. Bush was not single handed responsible for that. You give the guy to much credit.
"btw the govt. made a large profit on the AIG shares they purchased."
Another reason to question why the balance is so negative.
"the job losses all happened right after the bush administration, any logical sense would conclude that they were results of bush's policies,"
Any logical sense would say it was an increase in resource prices and bubbles. I'm not a big fan of bush but again you give the guy to much credit.
"the last 3 years have seen small but constant job growth."
It always does after a "crash". The only remarkable thing here is how slow.
Obama merely saved the failing leadership that will make the same mistakes in the future.
The Bad economy wasn't cause by high energy prices. It was caused by fiscal irresponsibility by too many people. From the govt to every idiot who bought overpriced homes that cost 75% of their monthly income to maintain.
Obama Is The Greatest
He Is
Buy Us Bonds
OBAMA! OBAMA!
Changeeeeeeeeeeee
"The Bad economy wasn't cause by high energy prices."
Yes it was. Else those bubbles would have busted later. Look up the price of energy compared to the real value of money and you can predict almost every crisis for almost a century. It peaks right before the crash. After the crash it falls, and after a period of low energy prices econ boosts again and increases energy prices again.
"It was caused by fiscal irresponsibility by too many people."
Partly true, people couldn't maintain the bubbles because everything went up in price. Everything went up in price because production and transport costs where higher. Production and transport costs where higher because energy prices skyrocketed. If there wasn't the house bubble it would have been something else. Even if there were no bubbles, we would all be poorer no matter what.
We can afford all this stuff not because we work so hard, but because the resources to produce it are very cheep. We successfully replaced labor from people with energy(coal, oil) that does the work for us. The replacement is a hundred times more productive as the original workforce. That is why we are so rich. Without it, we can't feed even 1/3 of worlds population at this moment let go produce and consume a lot.
The Yell, that's exactly my point.
I'm not saying Bush's lies "cancel out" Obama's lies, but rather why the hell are we talking about lies at all? Justinian I said it pretty well.
Is it sad that we have to just accept that our government is going to lie to us? Absolutely. But I don't think it's productive to any conversation to point out how much the current administration is lying to us. That's what I was responding to. If Einstein wants to debate the details of the current administration's initiatives to be more transparent, that is one thing. But to say "Liberals have blinders on! That's why don't see the lies!" is just pointless, and a questionable thing to point out given the context of recent history and the Bush administration in particular.
"Obama knowingly makes false statements with the intent to mislead."
Ok great. And Bush too. And Nixon. Etc etc. The point is, talking about an administration's lies is totally useless unless we are talking about something specific within the context of a more specific debate topic. Einstein wasn't doing that, which is why I responded to the hilarity of such comments by comparing them to Bush.
Yes a lie is a lie. Politicians are generally liars. Let's not waste our time talking about how Obama is one too.
No, let's remind ourselves that being a liar is bad and that Obama is bad because he's a liar.
How pointless.
Ok he's a liar. Now what? Did you want to use that information to have a meaningful conversation about anything in particular or are you just satisfying your urge to remind people that "Obama is bad"?
This is what I mean: instead of having a worthwhile discussion about specific topics we end up with meaningless blabber. High school kids could put forth more interesting conversation.
I'm starting to remember why I stopped coming to this subforum.
Imperial Forum → Politics → Obama is the greatest president of all time
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