Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

With the US election stealing headlines there has been scant notice in Europe of things. But we shall investigate!




Formally the EU is in a second depression.

France starting to stumble under the weight of their tax the rich plans

Greece is falling under the sway of Nazi/White Power types as the population more and more blames immigration for their woes.

More than 50% of Britons would choose to suceed from EU if a referendem was started.

Spains economy and Government teeter on the verge of collapse.

The Catolina question gains steam thanks to the lack of a smackdown on the Hamas request for nationhood of Palestine and threatens to rise to other such efforts.

Merkel is suffering losses in her parties control of Germany slowly but surely.

Talks have happened on how to do an exit for Greece from the EU.

The United States, Russia, and China are suing the EU for their obviously illegal airline tax scheme (which the EU needs for revenues...)


And now the 7 year budget for the EU is here and everyone NEEDS it to do this, that, and definitely not that!

Brits want a 20% reduction, France says touch not subsidies, Spain says no cuts, other nations are all piling on. What a mess! http://www.france24.com/en/20121118-eu-fresh-trouble-budget-summit-faces-collapse

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

Nah, it is not that bad. Everything will go on as planned. Concerns will start after the German general elections in about 1 year. Merkel will try everything to delay the hard decisions until after the election. Popular support for Merkel in Germany is around 67% atm. Her party is polling around 40% (which is good). Just their coalition partner, the FDP, is on its way of self suicide because of hopeless bad party leaders.

Greece is as hopeless as it was all the time. 'Bad news' are 'good news', because it may be 'really bad news' instead. There were always talks how to kick Greece out of the Euro. This is like the US-quarrel about abortion. Many people want to abolish the right for abortions, but no government will ever do it.

France is pretty much like the US. Both believe their countries are a planet of its own, while the other nations form earth.

Catalonia may vote for secession, but as the spanish constitution does not allow it, the independence-party leaders will face a long time in prison than. While the EU-commission declared, that an independent Catalonia won't be part of the EU, the support for secession has dropped far below 50%.

The British would be idiots to leave the EU. Alone they will never survive. Within the EU they can play the "game of thrones". From outside they are just the wildlings from the north wink

At least the EU does need a new buget only every 7 years. Most nations have these debates every year. Btw. the budget is really smal for an area like the EU. Just around 1000 billion Euro for 7 years. The US spends this in a few months. So lets talk about small government wink

As far as i know the airplane tax has been canceled for 1 year.

Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

Personally I would be in favour of telling southern Europe to figure it out for themselves, and create a Northern European Union. They screwed us over by faking their state finances, and then we have to step up and pay for the costs when it backfires.

Of course this would not be a viable option for many many many reasons. And it will never happen, but a guy can dream.

Also, it needs to be said things are not quite as bad as Flint depictures them. Right wing extremists will always try to shock people. But generally right wing extremists in Europe are not as right wing as republicans in the US.

NEE NAW NEE NAW

Primo

4 (edited by Einstein 19-Nov-2012 09:41:18)

Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

The parts firewing did not reply to are telling...

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

"France starting to stumble under the weight of their tax the rich plans"
To name that as a single cause of bad econ is ridiculous. Even the predictions of his own party speak of 210 million euro. There are many other reasons for bad econ. Esp in France, lol.

"Greece is falling under the sway of Nazi/White Power types as the population more and more blames immigration for their woes."
I'm afraid so. Feels like the good old choose between the reds or fascists. People never learn.

"More than 50% of Britons would choose to suceed from EU if a referendem was started."
To many of the top class have interests in Europe. It will never happen.

"Spains economy and Government teeter on the verge of collapse."
true

The Catolina question gains steam thanks to the lack of a smackdown on the Hamas request for nationhood of Palestine and threatens to rise to other such efforts.
I doubt it. Most of the Catalans are still against independence.

"Merkel is suffering losses in her parties control of Germany slowly but surely."
But polls predict the opposite.

"Talks have happened on how to do an exit for Greece from the EU."
I hope so.

"The United States, Russia, and China are suing the EU for their obviously illegal airline tax scheme (which the EU needs for revenues...)"
This is a minor dispute with to much media attention. There is always a fight going on over import taxes or the likes. It should be 0 between EU en US plain and simple.

All in all I think I agree with the majority of your points, except for the separations.

Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

In the grand scheme of things the airline tax is... Not something the average European gives a damn about. Let the USA, China etc sue away. See if we care. Spain's goverment and economy have been teethering on the brink of collapse for decades, nothing new.

There is a reason why the USA is doing zilch in foreign policy at the moment. It's because it is in an even bigger mess than the EU.

Je maintiendrai

Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

It's just another reason to do business elsewhere than the EU. Every business plan has a cost-benefit analysis of proposed locations, and this is just one more reason to do business elsewhere.

This isn't rocket science. You're just hurting yourselves. This stuff is covered in high school business courses. Grow up. Get an education.

The reason the USA isn't doing anything is because it's a nation of ignorant sheep without a clue, herded by our socialist overlords content to collapse our economy, blame it on freedom, and use this nonsense to justify even more atrocious government overreach than we are already burdened by. It has nothing to do with the state of our economy, which is on average significantly better than Europe's. Though that may change as many Europeans are forced to confront reality, and Amerika is saddled with the cost of tens of millions of ghetto trash (who will literally never produce anything) which Europe isn't.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

You'd be amazed at the billions of cuts in goverment spending, social welfare and all that jazz were seeing across the continent. Well in Nothern Europe anyway.

Je maintiendrai

Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

But polls predict the opposite.

Haven't you heard, Republicans don't believe in polls.

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ ☭ Fokker

10 (edited by V. Kemp 19-Nov-2012 14:30:38)

Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

I believe it, BiefstukFriet. It's a shame that tens of millions of Amerikans will vote for whoever promises them the most handouts: Eventually, we'll have to face the music. The longer we wait, the worse it'll be. And we're not slowing down our debt growth; we're speeding it up.

I think most Europeans posting on this forum fail to recognize the demographic and cultural differences between their nations and the USA.

Many of their nations, not founded upon the limited government and personal freedoms that the USA was, grew to be socialistic (no judgement here) in many ways. Faced with fiscal insolvency, most have had to scale back their governments significantly.

The part I think many outside (and inside, too) of the USA ignore is that we know we're on a very insolvent path and we know that we're becoming more so every single year. The part I think many outside (and inside, too) of the USA ignore is that there are tens of millions of voting Amerikans who just don't care.

They've enjoyed  so many government handouts all of their lives that they literally don't care about insolvency. They don't care about debt and their children's futures. They literally don't care about collapse. They know that handouts are more than no handouts. And they vote to get all the handouts they can get, and they'll keep voting for maximized handouts until the day their bankrupt government collapses and has nothing to hand out.

As is very obvious from voting records, these people who vote solely for handouts without regard for anything else are concentrated in ghettos. And they are multitudinous. Videos frequently go viral showing these ignorant bums talking about showing up for government handouts as their sole source of income, with no idea where the money comes from. With no regard for education. With no regard for work. With no regard for sustainability or the future.

For all of my love of personal freedom, I'm not making an argument here against democratic socialism. I'm pointing out that America, culturally, suffers/will suffer (economically/gov't revenue wise) even more from democratic socialism than Europe (most of which is cutting back drastically). If you think Europe's cuts are bad, just wait for America's cuts. It's gonna be a hell of a show.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

I agree that's it's very bad right now. Lots of companies have been holding on but suffering in silence for years. More corporate skelettons will be falling out of the closet in the near future.

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Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

Firewing is incorrect on one point. The UK would not suffer from leaving the EU. Nonetheless the net economic cost to remaining is less than our overseas aid budget. Most Brits would shrink that too.

Spock is predicting some Randian-esque demise for the USA. Perhaps, but he already concedes that the Peoples Republics of Europe are scaling back socialism.

13 (edited by The Yell 20-Nov-2012 02:43:11)

Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

what if you had the North European Economic Union and didn't tell the south? they don't export anyhow, that's the problem with them

try voting in EU Parliament to ban them from seceding without permission from 2/3 the members, that'll prod them into rioting to quit immediately

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

They're scaling back. We're pushing for more with no regard for costs/debt. Ghetto trash love the handouts and know nothing of consequences. Our political overlords want a significant collapse, because they'll blame it on freedom and use it as an excuse for more government control of our economy.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: ye faltering old farts; The EU Stumbles

@yell
cause it will be a problem if they decide to put import taxes on our products.