• Posts: 5,940
  • Tag points: 91

Re: Fingerprints

Ok, so I live in the beautiful country the Netherlands. Who is b#m deep into the European Union. They passed a new law a while ago saying that every inhabitant of the Netherlands is now required to give his fingerprints in order to get a passport or an ID-card.

Dutch law says everyone is required too ID themselves when asked by the police, so basically if you leave your home without it you are breaking the law and can get fined.


So here's my problem with it.

- They implemented this new law, too minimize the number of cases of identity theft. Which in 2011, was an astonishing 16 reported cases!
- They will put a biometric facial scan, your fingerprints and other important personal info an a RFID chip. So all your info is nicely stored in one spot. Its rather easy with a RFID scanner too pick up that signal and hack into it.
- All the data of this will be stored in a datacenter of a French company called Morpho, which is a sister company of a American company, which falls under the patriot act, so the US can even more easily than before get all the personal info of the Dutch people. (I know when you go to the US they get this stuff anyways, but at least than you know you are giving it to them).
- My personal beliefs
- My personal philosophy
- The requirement of giving fingerprints goes into the fundamental laws for the protection of personal freedom and physical integrity
- Storage is storage. In contrary to what the minister said they will keep the info for 5 years
- At first it was only supposed to be used by the local authorities, now they merged it with the central intelligence and safety agencies.
- Nothing is unhackable, so if any hacker would succeed he will have more info than he'd need to mess up your life. In this digital world the government will always be chasing the facts.
(Recently servers of a company working for the government got hacked into...they were running the servers on a system that was 5 years old without the necessary updates and patches and they still had the standard logg in, so everybody who knows how to google can get into it.)

- They already tested this system and in 25% of the cases, the fingerprints can't be matched with the ones on your ID-card.

So as I said, this has been implemented in order to fight identity theft. Too minimize the astonishing high number of 16 cases a year hmm



There is a long road left to go for me. thank god I am not the only one in my country who can still think for himself. Some other people are already further than me, but as expected the government is stalling with every loophole they can think off.

I wrote my appeal a year ago already, the hearing will be at city hall tonight, where I can defend myself and give further explanations.
They were supposed to answer me within 8 weeks, but they lost/can't find me appeal, so I had to sent it over again and the starting time of it moved too.

So basically this is the entire track I will have too follow:

Decision - government decides not to give me an ID card and they send me a letter to which you can send your appeal.
Objection - average length of 12 weeks. (here's where I am atm)
Court - max 2 years
Higher court - max 3 years
European court for human laws. (whatever decision they make will be final and will be the same for all the separated cases)


So just needed this to wright it off and I am interested to know how you all feel about this, if you'd do the same, if you can't understand why I am doing this or perhaps if you might have some suggestions for me that I didn't think of yet.

7.5h left yikes

Immigrants make a difference
We are all immigrants
We all make a difference
How are we all immigrants?
- Our souls are not from here

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,044

Re: Fingerprints

Good luck, it's good to know there are still people who care and fight for their privacy.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

3 Reply by The Yell (edited by InSaNe 24-Oct-2012 13:25:10)

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: Fingerprints

>> All the data of this will be stored in a datacenter of a French company called Morpho, which is a sister company of a American company, which falls under the patriot act, so the US can even more easily than before get all the personal info of the Dutch people. (I know when you go to the US they get this stuff anyways, but at least than you know you are giving it to them).<<

http://www.morpho.com/qui-sommes-nous/core-values/?lang=en

oh [my days]

they're the Umbrella Corp!


if the stuff doesnt work, isnt secure, and will be shared with America (which means it will be accidentally leaked, then criminally copied and sold. Inevitably.  And accidentally. just like the last two iPhones) then why do it?

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,263

Re: Fingerprints

But it's all for your benefit!

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ &#9773; Fokker

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 5,940
  • Tag points: 91

Re: Fingerprints

> Simon wrote:

> But it's all for your benefit!


Thats probably the same as was the guards at the WWII death camps told the prisoners when they got their prison number tattoo placed on their arms on arrival.

hmm

Immigrants make a difference
We are all immigrants
We all make a difference
How are we all immigrants?
- Our souls are not from here

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 3,007
  • Tag points: 425

Re: Fingerprints

they got a tattoo for free.  what are they complaining about? tattoos are expensive as hell, especially ones with multiple numbers

So I told the cop, "No YOU'RE driving under the influence... of being a JERK!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFjjO_lhf9c

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: Fingerprints

Let's out it another way:


Lawyers were told manditory pro bono work would help with their reputations...

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: Fingerprints

my days is bananas
B A N A N A S
my days is bananas
B A N A N A S

uhhh
It's my days, its my days
uhhh
it's my days its my days

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 3,007
  • Tag points: 425

Re: Fingerprints

X(

So I told the cop, "No YOU'RE driving under the influence... of being a JERK!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFjjO_lhf9c

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: Fingerprints

dpenguins drafts a summons & complaint for dissolution for his wife to satisfy the pro bono requirement

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,263

Re: Fingerprints

@sol,

I don't know if you can quite compare them like that. I'd argue the intentions are different. However, intention doesn't change the reality of what it is. That said, such a thing wouldn't fly in the US at all. Heck, we don't even have a national ID. I think it would be interesting to see how this thing plays out and in that sense I'm glad it's in the Netherlands and not in the US.

How'd your meeting go?

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ &#9773; Fokker

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,000
  • Tag points: 43

Re: Fingerprints

Dutch people don't deserve rights anyways

You have now been infected with Bird flu. Good day.


~Testudinae~

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: Fingerprints

I am for a national ID but against tracking or monitoring of ANY sort.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 5,940
  • Tag points: 91

Re: Fingerprints

@Simon

It was meant more as a joke with the irony of it being that IBM (allegedly) provided the punched card technology that facilitated the Holocaust. Which basically is the origin of personally linked data storage. The intentions are different indeed, I hope smile


The meeting went rather well, the whole hearing took like 50 minutes. There were 3 sides present, the city hall case worker, an independent advise committee (3 people) + the minutes secretary and me.
I was given the chance to give further information about my arguments for refusing to give my fingerprints.
Most time was spent by the committee on hearing the case worker how it was possible for them to give me incorrect info the first time I refused, which delayed this track the first 3 months.
After I finally had the necessary papers to file on appeal on, I waited patiently but no response, not even when they passed their own deadline(6 weeks max) (I figured that it could only work in my benefit:))

Eventually I e-mailed them asking what was taking them so freaking long, 2h later I get a phone call, I can't find it, I'll look for it, next day I get a call back if I wanted to drop by to give them another copy (what resetted their answering time to tick zero tongue). So now something that was supposed to be a process of 8-10 weeks max. turned into 14-16 months tongue

The committee now has 4 weeks to come with a firm suggestion towards this case. What they say isn't mandatory, but generally speaking their advise will be followed.

And I scored some points, the case workers used a court ruling of a similar case somewhere back in June this year, but the committee did some digging themselves too and noted they had one from 29th of September and because it was so fresh they weren't able to add it to the list of the supporting documents for everyone too see pre-hearing.
So they asked us if we wanted the case number or a copy, I told them no because I already brought 2 copies of it with me smile

In short it says that all similar cases in court or higher court are now suspended while the court waits till Court of Justice in Luxembourg rules if this this is conflicting with the current privacy & other laws.

I have a semi win already, because the cabinet council passed a new law which changes the ID-card side of the law. This change means the law doesn't see the ID-card as "travel card" anymore, while you can still move freely with it inside the European union. The period it is valid will be 10 years instead of 5 years now and more importantly no more fingerprints required! Yay!

Only problem is this will take anywhere between 12-18 months for it to become an active law.

I will finish this post the same as my hearing yesterday,

Je maintiendrai!

Immigrants make a difference
We are all immigrants
We all make a difference
How are we all immigrants?
- Our souls are not from here

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: Fingerprints

yikes  Sol Invictus is kicking ass and taking names

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,263

Re: Fingerprints 

Only problem is this will take anywhere between 12-18 months for it to become an active law.

Glad to hear it's going well...keep us updated =P

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ &#9773; Fokker

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: Fingerprints

Go Sol Invictus!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

18 Reply by East (edited by East 26-Oct-2012 12:14:54)

  • East
  • East
  • Player
  • Offline
  • Posts: 1,354
  • Tag points: 17

Re: Fingerprints

I take from this thread that Europe is saving your b#m

qsudifhkqsdhfmsklfhjqmlsdfhjqkmsldfhjmqklsfhmqlsfhjqmsklfhqmskjdfhqsfq
sdffdgjfhjdfhgjhsfsdfqgsbsthzgflqkcgjhkgfjnbkmzghkmqrghqmskdghqkmsghnvhdf
qmkjghqmksdjqlskhqkmsdhqmskfhjqmskjdfhqkmsdfjhqmskfhjqkmsjdfhqkm
sjfhqkmsjfhqkmsjfhkqmjsfhqksdjmfhqksjfhqskjdfhnbwfjgqreutyhaerithgfqsd
kjnqsdfqsdfqsdfmkjqhgmkjnqsgkjmhzdflmghjsmdlghjsmdkghmqksdjghq

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,263

Re: Fingerprints

Naw. Europe is clearly our guinea pig. We're only socially behind because we wanna see how all the welfare stuff plays out in Europe first tongue

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ &#9773; Fokker

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 5,940
  • Tag points: 91

Re: Fingerprints

They wouldn't dare too implement this if we were able to buy& stock up on firearms like in the US =P


@East, How so?

Immigrants make a difference
We are all immigrants
We all make a difference
How are we all immigrants?
- Our souls are not from here

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 3,639
  • Tag points: 345

Re: Fingerprints

Nastradamus foretold of these times.

Sex without the e is still SX!

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: Fingerprints

>>They wouldn't dare too implement this if we were able to buy& stock up on firearms like in the US =P<<

Naw you pretty much have to give fingerprints to get a gun permit here...

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: Fingerprints

he says EU is saving you since you'll appeal there

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 5,940
  • Tag points: 91

Re: Fingerprints

I should be getting the result of the hearing today or tomorrow! smile

Immigrants make a difference
We are all immigrants
We all make a difference
How are we all immigrants?
- Our souls are not from here

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 841
  • Tag points: 4

Re: Fingerprints

Go Sol go

"I was beginning to think you were afraid to fight."
"I'm just naturally lazy, but I will if I have to."

Retired

0 Dislike 0 Post Points