Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

Wow... word is spreading through Israeli and Jewish news sites and commentary that Obama has pushed a hole to see thw Egyptian president but when Benjamin asked for some time as leader of Israel on urgent matters he was told there was no time in the scheule.

They are using Obama's schedule against him showing fluff interviews with womens magazines, fund raising events and such.

The blow back is huge.

I think for the first time since WWII (I may be incorrect, Eisenhower may be the last one) a Republican will garner the majority of the Jewish vote.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
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Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/foreign-policy-hands-voice-disbelief-at-romney-cai

Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

the only good Jew is a live one mad

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Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

Genesis please moderate yourself.

Topic is Jewish voters, not Islamic ones, not Egyptian ones, not a statement about a riot.

It is sad that I could be blocked for up to a week for doing what you did, and yet you as a mod are not held to higher standards, but looser standards apparently.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

Psst... notice Gen's tag.  tongue

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Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

I thought mods could post as players or mods? Or was that old forum?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

Old forum.  Otherwise, I would have been showing off my normal tag much more often than I do now!  tongue

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Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

I'm sorry, what's the problem with the post? It's a link to an article questioning the judgement of Obama's main rival about questions that will probably influence the Jewish vote.

It's pretty on topic if you ask me smile

Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

The topic is explicitly about Obama's relationship with Jewish voters, who supported him by a huge margin in the last election. The topic is explicitly recent events which have greatly disappointed many Jews.

What does it have to do with Romney again, Genesis? Your link doesn't even have anything to do with Jews, let alone Jewish voters.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

10 (edited by Zarf BeebleBrix 13-Sep-2012 21:39:36)

Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

It has to do with Romney in that "votes" are part of a competitive event (an election) in which votes lost by one candidate either abstain or generally vote for the other candidate.  In effect, this thread is framed as an issue within the issue of election result prediction.

Functionally, it's the equivalent of if a candidate made an accidental racial slur against a minority, and someone claimed that the slur ruined that person's chances at winning.  Saying "but his opponent is actively attacking that minority to the point where they would never vote for him even if they did turn against their favored candidate" is still an on-point reply.


EDIT: I'm only interjecting with regards to the question of whether a Romney-related equivalent issue is on point.  I haven't actually read the link enough to give a warranted ruling just yet.  tongue

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Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

I sincerely doubt he had too many jewish voters to begin with...

NEE NAW NEE NAW

Primo

Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

History would STRONGLY beg to differ with you, Primo.

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/jewish-voting-in-the-united-states-a-historic-perspective/


I'm trying to find statistics on it... but yeah, it's sort of a given for a LONG time that the Jewish vote generally favors Democrats.

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Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

But yeah, that then brings an entirely different question into the field: If US policy toward Israel was an issue strong enough to manifest as a key issue for the Jewish population... the Jewish population should have been Republican for decades.  tongue

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Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

well maybe 2 decades 

well maybe 1 decade

harder to be more hardcore zionist than the Israeli PM

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Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

Romney has a strong leadership connection here, he worked with the Israeli PM and is close friends, for a long time now.

He is one of few Republican candidates who can say he would have a strong relationship and Jews would believe.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

He can say he has a strong connection to the Jewish population and to Israel... but empirically, voting results show that's just not an issue the Jewish vote actually votes on.  Otherwise, that would have resonated at some point in US history.  Hell, Bush should have gained some pro-Israel credibility in 2004, if anything.  However, as can be seen... the only instance in which the Jewish vote actually goes Republican during the past 100 years... is for Hubert Humphrey, which was long before Israel even became a state anyway.  And we're not even talking about close results here.  There are only 2 elections since the creation of Israel in which the Jewish vote in presidential elections is decided by a margin of 20 points or less.  Maybe it's just empirically not an important issue?  Otherwise... there'd be SOME dent!

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html

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Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

Prior to Obama the issue of Israel was pretty close between the parties.

Even Carter, during his Presidency, was kind and polite to the Israeli leadership. In fact prior to Clinton they could be said to be closer thanks to Jewish push than that of Republicans.

This is the first time a President has told Israel they should give up Jerusalem, leave certain things alone, and otherwise. He is also the first one to not make time for the PM of Israel if Israel said it was important.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/015/orly.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_478

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Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

The view of Jewish voters toward Obama is not inherently related opinions of non-Jews toward Romney's comments regarding Libya or Egypt. There wasn't any reference to Jewish voters or their views of Romney's comments offered, which at least would have contrasted Jewish views of Romney vs Obama and been relevant. If the subject pertained to the likelihood that some Jewish voters would not vote at all or vote for Romney, sure. But it didn't.

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Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

Israel is preparing for war and the government drives a hardcore-nationalist campaign, but many Israelis fear what will happen in a war with Iran. So Netanjahu needs support from the US to show his people that Israel can do whatever they want, because the US will help them. The best picture is he with Obama followed by some hard words from Netanjahu, that would heat up the conflict in a difficult time for the middle east and north africa. As the recent events demonstrate the last thing the region needs is a war between Israel(+US) against Iran. The president of egypt on the other side needs support. Every political move in north africa may determine the fate of the region for the next 50 years.

Obama made the right choice and every voter should think twice before changing sides.

Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

however bad a conventional Israeli strike on Iran with terrorist Iranian retaliation would be, the WORST thing would be a nuclear exchange between Iran and Israel

the world community has its head up its ass about the Palestinian question and has done for 40 years.  Israel could make total concessions to Palestine and it would not stop the violence.  This was revealed 10 years ago when the PA was created, in theory to solve the problems caused by the 1967 taking of Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian territory after their invasion of Israel -- and when the PA and Israel seemed capable of a general settlement, Jordan and Syria declared they'd have separate and additional demands of Israel in compensation for their claims.  They do not accept the "Western" formulation that the creation of the PA addresses those claims.

Rather than face up to this the "West" blames Israel and then blames the US for not putting pressure on Israel.  Well you got what you wanted in Obama and your failed program is bearing its failed fruit.  A negotiated settlement remains impossible and open warfare is imminent.

The majority of Arabs have been borne since the last open wars against Israel and don't figure they will lose the next ones.  US should announce we only got involved as a favor and won't bother with a "peace process" any more.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

in 1979 Anwar Sadat said, I paraphrase, "Screw this annihilation of Israel bullshit, we want NAP with Israel to concentrate on infra.  There. We won't attack. Unilateral NAP.  You gonna screw that up Jews?"  Since then Egypt has had the benefits of peace.

The rest of the Arab world imagines that it can force Israel to BUY recognition and keeps trying to sell it.  Actually if they copied Sadat and just gave up eliminating Israel they'd reduce a lot of tensions in Israel and US and the US would be more supportive of horsetrading.  But they fail to see the corollary of "we won't agree to not destroy you with invasion" is, "genocidal wars of aggression are on the table"

and that's withotu the interference of the Iranian secret service and its terrorist cadres promoting Shiite militias anywhere that will raise them.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

Israel has democracy, it was founded mostly by European refugees who looked back at the parliamentary tradition, it has transplanted european style parliamentary democracy

this means the position "Israel should not be bombed back into the Stone Age" gets about 25% of the vote with 10% willing to be bombed to the Steam Age and another 40% willing to join that bloc in a coalition against the Communists until something better comes along

Arab recognition of Israel's right to exist in some form would roil Israel and the hardliners would sink

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

@yell

Egypt made peace with Israel and accepted its existence back in 1979. Another point why it is so important to have good realtions with Egypt.

Re: Obama just lost the Jewish vote

I said that

>in 1979 Anwar Sadat said, I paraphrase, "Screw this annihilation of Israel bullshit, we want NAP with Israel to concentrate on infra.  There. We won't attack. Unilateral NAP.  You gonna screw that up Jews?"  Since then Egypt has had the benefits of peace.<

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.