from lisbon treaty to starship troopers. How do you guys menage?

in a top in luxemburg they agreed to continue with the treaty but they don't know how yet.

more then half of europe is for it, and half of whats left would be if they understood what its about.

"more then half of europe is for it, and half of whats left would be if they understood what its about."

Disinformation! How many of those countries allowed their populations to vote on the issue in a referendum?

"Disinformation!"
Do you think all other people here do cognitive dissonance/desinformation? Anyway, it doesn't matter.

"How many of those countries allowed their populations to vote on the issue in a referendum?"
I was talking total numbers not number of countries. There have been polls but to your defence polls don't proove a vote result.

But do you question the fact that half of the people (including you) don't know squad about the treaty?

"I know all about the treaty, it will streamline the EU decision process and make it more transparant, bla bla."
but do you know HOW? You seem like another guy who votes no for the wrong reasons.(I don't know whats going on so I don't trust it thing) While this treaty does exactly that, making it easier for you to understand and more transparant.

"I'm still saying 'NO' because they're a bunch of arrogant twats with a thirst for power."
"THEY"-you have to search wiki to name 15 of them but- are mostly national politicians who moved to european institutions. Anyway, that is no reason for voting against the treaty. The trearty makes it more democratic (giving you more control of them)

"I'm not denying people are voting no for reasons other than the content of the treaty, but so what?"
So what? The control process named democracy doesn't function and this treaty solves a minor part of it.

"All in all it comes down to the fact that the European people do not trust, like or care about the EU."
really? I doubt it. Fear and lack of knowledge might be the biggest factor but still you have to proove the figures.

"Before the EU even tries to get treaties like this through it should do something about it's image, or lack thereof."
->they pushed the lisbon treaty for that purpouse.

"This is the price the EU pays for years of condescending arrogance."
That is a true fact. But its not a good thing non the less

"I see nothing but good things comming out of this, why in gods name would you vote against it?"
I wouldn't know either. I'm all for it. Ask biefstukfriet. He's against it because "the EU is arrogant". I have no clue what he tries to bring forth

"you have to search wiki to name 15 of them"

My point exactly.

"they pushed the lisbon treaty for that purpouse."

Then they are doing it the wrong way, people don't like to be pushed.

"Saying the EU is arrogant is calling youself arrogant."

How come? The national politicians that represent my country in the EU never ran their National campaign with a European agenda.

"When European leaders reached agreement on the new rules, they were thinking of the political, economic and social changes going on, and the need to live up to the hopes and expectations of the European public."

I can barely tolerate goverment interverence in my economical and social life as it is, why would I want yet another governing body breathing down my neck?

lol@freelancer
he's going to look it up tough to proove he does

@bief:
"My point exactly."
then how do you know they are arrogant? You don't know what they are doing as well so it can't be that. The only point you (bief) can have against them is they are not open enough. But that is what this treaty forces them to do.

They need this treaty to go on with europe with more nations, we need a more democratic and open EU to communicate better. ----->The lisbon treaty

The lisbon treaty also makes sure your country can "pull out" of the EU any time it wants. So if the Netherlands decide they don't want to be part of it anymore they can become independant.

LOL
Another newsfact:
Sarkozy has made lisbon a priority on his agenda (france will take the EU-chairmanship soon). Next to that he plans to work on a unified europe migrationplan, agriculture and a real european defence structure.

thats the result of a couple mistakes made in the past and bad communication. I fully agree to all that. Though the media also played its role in it by not giving it enough attention.

Well, by start being democratic about becoming  democratic. And take the No votes in stride. Acknowledge that the road to a more unified and democratic EU will be a long and arduous one that can't be fixed by shoving a treaty down peoples throats.

Anyhow, what happened to the days the EU was just an economic entity?