Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

Not all people are equal.

In all things there is unequality.


Chris for instance has a greater depth of unusual knowledge than I do. Teddy is a better attacker than I am. I however am a better truck driver than either of them.

Things could change... Chris could drive like a 40 year vet starting next year, I could suddenly start spouting twenty languages that I studied, and Teddy could get even drunker than usual and stop attacking forever and just bank.

Things can change... but then also... Michael Phelps is unlikely to lose his swimming skills, Michael Jordon was the best for a long time, Claude Shannon was a top mathematician...

Some things can change, somethings wont change.

Talent, skill, ability, and knowledge will always separate people.


Ambitions will also set us apart. Clearly I am very ambitious with my politics and driving truck with plans to go to college/university.


Barack Obama recently said "If you own a business you did not build this".

In "John Galt" (get the joke) all were equal. They did this by handicapping any skills or advantages that people had. This was the only way they could achieve equality.

As a Shrugging Atlas (again get the joke) claims to create equality are borne from desires to handicap someone with an advantage. Instead it enriches a few who otherwise would lose out for their lack of ability or position.


If I earn something, why should it be yours?

Now don't get me wrong, I support essential services... Police, Fire, Medical, Courts, roads, and the likes. What I do not support is the idea of equal outcomes.


If I buy a truck, if I drive that truck hard... I am the cause of my success. Yes there are some tools provided to me by the Government... roads being one... But I could do other things if that business is prevented by difficulties.

if I start a bakery and I design the muffins so people want to buy my muffins rather than yours.. How did the Government make that happen?

If I paint your car so good at half the price of someone else... How is that made possibly by the Government?

How was Vincent Van Goh (or however his name was spelled) a better painter thanks the Government?


Everyone is special (though Barack is special ed) in their own way, and yes while luck can play a bit in it... The only true fairness is equal opportunity, not equal outcome.


I am John Galt and I approve this message (get the joke)

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

>>The only true fairness is equal opportunity

The truest words you have ever spoken, now if you would only realise that your positions on so many things are at odds with this statement we could start moving forward. Also if you actually thought about the words you would realise that the words in the subject are not at odds with this statement.

Not all people have equal skills, but all skills are important but are incomparable. All people deserve to be treated the same and have the same opportunities, but given human nature the only way to achieve this is to provide some sort of assistance to those who are disadvantaged in some way.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

no...

I would never trust Xeno to run a billion dollar corporation...

I would trust Bill Gates to do so.

I would never trust Dpenguins to make 10 out of 10 shots in a basketball game

I would trust Michael Jordan to pull it off.

Nor would I trust any religious talk from Kemp

But I would give credit for words from the Pope

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

i kick ass at basketball

So I told the cop, "No YOU'RE driving under the influence... of being a JERK!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFjjO_lhf9c

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

white man can't jump. Nuff said about you! tongue

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

if everyone is one of a kind, then everyone is always an equal.

Colorado: even in the 11/01 war i made more hits.
Colorado: 447 blow jobs.
Big Gary:  Only a fool cannot admit when he's wrong...
AW:    i love rim jobs
RisingDown: I know you do

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

Flint: I suggest you read what I said again, I am not saying that everyone is the same, nor that everyone can do the same skills as well as any other, I am saying that the pope is equally as valuable as Jordan, as as equally valuable as the guy who cleans the toilet at work, and that the skill set for each is incomparable. I am also saying that everyone should be given the same chance no matter their background to reach their full potential, no matter what that is... I was also pointing out that this is not the same as what you would normally associate's with freedom of opportunity and that you should re-think what that actually means.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

8 (edited by Zarf BeebleBrix 12-Aug-2012 23:24:13)

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

Okay, general question for everyone: Define "equality of opportunity," and give examples of the policies which would, in your view, be needed to support such a policy goal (specifically, why the policies you mention are a tool to achieve equality of opportunity).

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

I think 1-12 grades is good, and that the scholarship system colleges and universities use is good... For those with the talent and the skill they can get a degree without money.


Yes some with money and a (not entirely) lack of talent can get degrees as well but those subsidize the scholarship system.

And in the USA (A Republic, not a Socialist Society) people can get ahead if they wish to try. Anyone can try, even the disabled (a certain astrophysicist comes to mind)

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

Zarf:

Equal Opportunity means if you apply yourself in school, in labor, in invention, in business, in some field of endeavor, you can achieve a higher life status, including becoming a billionaire.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

> You_Fool wrote:

> Flint: I suggest you read what I said again, I am not saying that everyone is the same, nor that everyone can do the same skills as well as any other, I am saying that the pope is equally as valuable as Jordan, as as equally valuable as the guy who cleans the toilet at work




1: Define value.
2: How is value measured?

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

@Flint

So in your worldview, ensuring equality of opportunity involves... promoting/paying for K-12 education, and having some merit-based scholarships available?  Any other government programs involved in that which we may be missing?

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

The SSD system is currently broken, and needs fixing, but the idea has merit.

and I specifically did not say K-12 but instead 1-12.

Govt loans destabilize the system so no.

Military Scholarships do not bother me as we get a roi we need with those.

Subsidies destabilize the system. A limited safety net is ok with me, unemployment is ok (but not 99 weeks!!!!)

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

But... but... I liked kindergarten nap time!  sad

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

Sooo... Did you nap solo, with a girl, or with a boy? And how has this shaped your current life? (j/k)

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

Don't make me eat your crayon box!

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

kindergarten was good for subjecting your kids to chickenpox in the hopes that they wouldnt get herpes later in life

So I told the cop, "No YOU'RE driving under the influence... of being a JERK!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFjjO_lhf9c

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

and developing social skills i guess

So I told the cop, "No YOU'RE driving under the influence... of being a JERK!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFjjO_lhf9c

19 (edited by V. Kemp 13-Aug-2012 05:13:44)

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

"All people deserve to be treated the same and have the same opportunities, but given human nature the only way to achieve this is to provide some sort of assistance to those who are disadvantaged in some way."

America's poor have so much extra cash that most of them choose to pay for air conditioning (units and electricity to operate), cell phones, and cable TV.

I think that whiny little ignorant twits should stop crying about how hard life is. They don't know how hard it is because they've never done it. They have no idea what they're talking about, so they're happy to propose more taxes and expand government power so that government can so-efficiently make everything fair and just. They're too ignorant of actual costs to understand that more taxes make it harder for every hard-working person who wants to succeed in life.

Anyone who thinks finishing high school and getting a degree is hard and society should pay for it probably has neither the intellectual capacity or work ethic to achieve a successful career in professional life.

I have a degree from an expensive university (>$20,000/yr), despite having 0 parental contribution and less than $1000/year in grants (because I'm white). I graduated with less than $10,000 debt. I worked and got a looooot of scholarships. People who can't do the same (much easier, going to far less expensive schools) should stop crying about how hard it is to be successful in life, and face the fact that they are the stupid and the lazy.

Some people just can't do harder, more challenging work than flipping burgers and carrying my bags to my room. The fact is these people live better than they ever have in human history. Redistributive attempts to raise their standards of living to those of people with actual skills, talent, motivation, and intelligence inevitably result in everybody living worse than the lazy idiots of our society do now.

America's poor live like kings compared to the vast majority of Cuban, North Korean, and Chinese people. Every argument that we need to make our country more like these nations in order to help the poor is disturbingly ignorant.

Equality under the law is all that good people need to raise themselves up. Every academic's naive theories of socially engineered utopia attack the dignity of man and tax his potential for success far more than they help.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

vkemp- i agree that for "equal opportunity" affirmative action has to go.  if someone wants to discuss its relevance in today's world i would love to hear it

also, america has too many programs that encourage uselessness in society. 

one easy fix i think that could happen that would at least help somewhat would be to ban family members from raising the kids of their unfit mother relative in order to receive money from the gov't to raise them.  people actually make a living off of this.

step 1- get pregnant
step 2- be declared unfit parent by the state
step 3- have grandmother raise kid with a nice check coming from the gov't
step 4- have more kids
step 5- grandmother gets up to 100k a month for raising your kids and you live with her and no one has to work

everyone has "equal opportunity" in usa.  the difference is that some people have work ethic and ambition and others do not

So I told the cop, "No YOU'RE driving under the influence... of being a JERK!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFjjO_lhf9c

21 (edited by V. Kemp 13-Aug-2012 05:59:10)

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

The problem with our safety-net programs is they're designed to buy votes (so the longer people are on them, the better), not help people.

There are whole generations of populations who understand government as the bread-winner of their families. It's just accepted and understood that government will provide housing, food, cell phones, and enough money to pay for cable TV, air conditioning, gas, [crappy] car insurance, etc.

Growing up in these cultures, why would you work hard to get an education and develop skills? Why would you work 40+ hour weeks? The [starting] level of income is about the same [or less] as having a bunch of kids and collecting welfare checks. Without cultural concerns of dignity, the respect of work (any work), and being self-sufficient, why would anyone work SO much for nothing?

As it turns out, many people can't think of a reason to work hard. So they don't. We enable and subsidize this decision.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: From Each their own, or for each thier needs?

"How was Vincent Van Goh"

Funny typo. Just just called him 'Vincent van Duh!'. big_smile

Je maintiendrai