Re: Proof the Bailouts Were Necessary

We've been declining since the 1960s by a lot of measures and the end of the Cold War has accelerated that process.  I don't think it takes a long time, look at UK 1890 and then 1940.  And then 1950.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Proof the Bailouts Were Necessary

Yes the two world wars and America's empire-envy crippled the UK economy. But in 2012 the UK still remains one of the big global players with the 7th biggest economy (20th per capita). The Pound Sterling hangs in as a global reserve currency (around 4% it is in third place). The City of London  remains the pre-eminent global financial centre.

Not bad 200 years on from Waterloo.

53 (edited by The Yell 11-Aug-2012 17:35:55)

Re: Proof the Bailouts Were Necessary

Maybe you shoulda lost the Empire when Wilhelm asked you to? Come off it.

The only reason America had dominance was, we were useful.  That seems over with.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Proof the Bailouts Were Necessary

What's your point? Mine isn't about the Empire.

Re: Proof the Bailouts Were Necessary

Yeah, and I think the loss of Empire should be a factor in a discussion of the decline of the UK. or the speed of the decline of global powers.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Proof the Bailouts Were Necessary

Loss of Empire may be more relevant to other countries. The UK was an economic black water in the 1950s and remained so until the 1980s. Are we debating global political influence or economic bailouts?

For instance Spain's wealth was based on its empire. Its decline though based on the loss of global power was largely the result of poor political choices.

France made costly errors to hold onto her Empire. I would suggest that this cost resulted in the French creating the founding blocks of the modern EU. As France needed to protect its uncompetitive economy.

Britain actually has done well economically post-Empire and through the Commonwealth, P5, etc. has remained globally important. However the UK would be wealthier had the Empire remained. This is though a result of rapid economic collapse in many former colonies due to weak or corrupt leadership. Faltering economies - and sometimes anti-British governments - naturally decreases trade and wealth creation.

Re: Proof the Bailouts Were Necessary

The point was that you have suffered a decline, and a fairly rapid decline, so that within the lifetime of people like Winston Churchill, his loyalty to the Empire was an anachronism in his old age.

In the US the obliteration of global political influence is already well underway and being hastened by stupid government spending on EVERYTHING funded by borrowing.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.