Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

Recently the owner of Chick-fil-a announced he was for the Biblical version of marriage and family.


The media was horrified, liberal mayors and politicians promised to try to stop new stores.


A funny thing then happened. A single pastor, ex-presidential candidate, and ex-Governor set up a shop in.

The Gay community responded by setting up a kiss in.




The outcome? The Shop in was huge, beyond any measure. Stores were swamped, and business days after remains extremely high.

The Kiss in failed to even have a fraction of the people show up compared to the average customers in the stores at a given moment.



with most States outlawing Gay marriage... and only Judges making Gay marriage (briefly each time, always shot down except I think two States)... I ask... who is winning and when will gay activists choose the easier, better, with no fight of a route of choosing a different name for their union... before they cannot even get that?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

Of course we should should respect biblical morality.

Where next do you think chick-fil-a should put their campaign funds?

-  the stoning of adulterers and rebellious children

-or  the reintroduction of slavery maybe.

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

There's not a coherent creed in there to begin with. It's a book written thousands of years ago for people living thousands of years ago. I think we've come across some better and more complex philosophical creeds to live by than the bloody bible.
And if you'd chose to follow those morals, why do you select them as we please? Timotheus prohibited women teaching men, stoning and outdated regulations regarding food. We chose not to embrace those.

The whole gay marriage discussion is absolutely stupid, backwards and a bit awkward by modern standards. I never understood that your principle of freedom extends to buying and owning dozens of machines designed to kill people by the dozens and founding totally wacko and even borderline dangerous religious cults but to not same sex-marriages. The last one is considered a threat to the society, the others aren't..

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

it's hard to get a lot of people in a gay kiss in smile

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Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

I don't buy into this morality argument against marriage. If you wanna be psychologically disordered, it's your life. Be happy. Whatever.

And I don't buy into government being involved in marriage to begin with. If taxes are SO high that married couples need breaks, then taxes are way too high. Getting government involved and making the whole process of taxation more complicated and costly is no solution.

But if you love behemoth government, consider one major difference between heterosexual and homosexual marriage: The creation of families, the fundamental building block of civilization. Heterosexual couples are, by form, capable of creating families. Homosexual couples are not.

Heterosexual marriages serve a vitally important function that homosexual unions, by any name, simply do not. Nature's such a bigot! I NO RITE!

And hey, hypocrites supporting gay marriage but not polygamous marriage, what's the basis for this hypocrisy? Polygamous marriage still serves the function of creating children and stable homes for those children--something which homosexual unions do not. Why the hypocrisy? A moral judgement, because polygamists are different from you? Bigots.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

A secularist standing should respect alternative marriage rights. The notion of one man to one woman doesn't follow traditional practises across much of the world, e.g. Native American, Islamic, and so on. Nonetheless I do think societal norms are borne from sensible practises for society as it evolves and therefore monogamous relationships make sense. Furthermore biologically it isn't human-unique - though our genitalia suggest it's not the system through which we evolved.

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

What alternative marriage rights?

What's marriage based on? Creating the next generation in the most productive way we know to create functional, balanced, productive human beings? That'd be heterosexual couples having kids. That wouldn't include "alternative" marriage. By this understanding, "alternative" marriage wouldn't be marriage at all. It doesn't serve the same function in society.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

I am indifferent to gay marriage, except for the fact that it cannot exist. Why? I care not about homosexuality. What you want to do with your own private business if your own right, but as long as the CHURCH and Religion recognize that homosexuals cannot be together, then you cannot have marriage. Marriage is a religious philosophy. Just because the govt recognizes it, doesn't make it correct. The govt should have no right to dictate marriage at all. Separation of church and state should prevent that. If they want to give legal rights and tax benefits to those that have married, then they need to do so based on a civil union, not a marriage. If I'm atheist, then I cannot marry. I must have a civil union.

Modestus Experitus

Arby: A very strict mod, reminds me of a fat redneck who drives a truck around all day with a beer in one hand. I hated this guy at the start, however, I played a round in PW with him where he went as an anonymous player. Our fam got smashed up and everyone pretty much left. Arby stayed around and helped out the remaining family. At the end of the round he revealed himself.... My views on him have changed since. Your a good guy.....

9 (edited by Justinian I 06-Aug-2012 02:52:08)

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

As an Atheist, I am dumbfounded that gays want to participate in a meaningless and religiously-based institution. It looks like vanity to me. I think gay marriage is a step in the wrong direction. Marriage ought to be abolished and replaced with contractual domestic partnerships.

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

Legal benefits, mate.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

it is now about what other people think of homosexuals, and cruelly adhering to bigotry in the face of superior enlightenment

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

12 (edited by Loth 06-Aug-2012 11:36:49)

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

no trolling banksy

<StrykerKp> whos the sxy guy?
<Snailex> banksy
<StrykerKp> o ok

I don't fight great wars  .......  I fund them!

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

Please explain.

I believe that government should make no judgements as to how you live. I believe that government should dole out no benefits, tax-break or otherwise, based on who you choose to live with, marry, [cluck], or otherwise.

So please explain the basis for your assessment that I am a "dick." You've made the claim. Where's your argument. If everyone believed, like me, that everyone should be able to live their life and seek happiness as they see fit, how would that be an ignorant society filled with people who you describe as being dicks.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

14 (edited by Loth 06-Aug-2012 11:38:45)

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

again trolling , keep to topic and respond with proper answers

<StrykerKp> whos the sxy guy?
<Snailex> banksy
<StrykerKp> o ok

I don't fight great wars  .......  I fund them!

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

"But if you love behemoth government, consider one major difference between heterosexual and homosexual marriage: The creation of families, the fundamental building block of civilization. Heterosexual couples are, by form, capable of creating families. Homosexual couples are not."

Invalid. Or we should go back to the renaissance time where a marriage can be disbanded for remaining childless.
The only valid reason for marriage is love. If two people love eachother they should be able to get married. All the rest is bullshit.
Your statement alone places you in one camp already. Your definition of "family" is very narrow. You even forgot about lesbian couples, but they seem to be forgot a lot in these discussions. It's a good ground to claim that you're just against gay men. wink
A same-sex couple is able to form a firm base for kids though, a position well-proved by modern psychologic research. Lesbian couples can conceive them on their own, so gay men should be able adopt children . Or are you saying society should step in and take those kids away?

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

/me cheers for wild flower soul

big_smile

<StrykerKp> whos the sxy guy?
<Snailex> banksy
<StrykerKp> o ok

I don't fight great wars  .......  I fund them!

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

When sperm is deposited in a mans rectun results in a life being formed, than the gays will have a leg to stand on. But it dosnt. Even taking the " religious " equation out of it, its unnatural.

Isnt there more important things atm to get riled up about? like the trillions of debt we are in?

18 (edited by Wild Flower Soul 06-Aug-2012 13:44:02)

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

Bollocks. Utter bollocks. Homophilia is observed among a large number of species, and is more frequent among the more intelligent ones. While it's always a minority, it can not be considered "unnatural". What is "unnatural" anyway? Geneticly enhanced crops can be considered unnatural, but those are allowed. The same goes for hormone stimulated meat. Nuclear fission can be labeled unnatural, but we use that globally. The "unnatural" argument is a sham to cover up religiously inspired morals or downright phobia of homosexuals.
But even if the "unnatural" argument would stand ground, it has nothing to do with marriage itself. There's nothing that would link them together. They're only linked when you tie them together with religious-based morality.

But I agree,Bacchus , that the economic situation is far more important. But why so stubbornly deny the craving of thousands of people while it does no harm to anyone but those involved (again, if you follow any disputable motivation against gay marriage)?

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

Why the name marriage since it causes conflict? Why not take a fully equivalent title and walk away with full rights?



But I also want to call you out on the animals.

There are three clear causes for male/male activities

1) Limiting access for long periods of times from females.

The most famous of these incidents invovled penguins. Unsurprisingly when females were introduced to the group all males mated (for life) with a female penguin.

2) Dominance/Rape
In the more intelligent species an alpha male will seek to assert dominance over lesser males by way of rape, like a Pedophile over a child.

3) Hormonal Imbalances
During the adolescent stage sometimes this happens but in all known cases this has ended with maturity,

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

"The bonobo ( /b&#601;&#712;no&#650;bo&#650;/ or /&#712;b&#594;n&#601;bo&#650;/), Pan paniscus, previously called the pygmy chimpanzee and less often, the dwarf or gracile chimpanzee,[3] is a great ape and one of the two species making up the genus Pan; the other is Pan troglodytes, or the common chimpanzee. Although the name "chimpanzee" is sometimes used to refer to both species together, it is usually understood as referring to the common chimpanzee, while Pan paniscus is usually referred to as the bonobo."

[...]

"The bonobo is popularly known for its high levels of sexual behavior. Sex functions in conflict appeasement, affection, social status, excitement, and stress reduction. It occurs in virtually all partner combinations and in a variety of positions. This is a factor in the lower levels of aggression seen in the bonobo when compared to the common chimpanzee and other apes."

This particular species proves that there are other reasons than the 3 causes you named for male/male activities (although in Bonobo's, female/female is more common).
Not to mention the following: High levels of sexual behaviour, including homosexual sexual behavior, corrolating with lower levels of aggression... HMMM.....

Maar doodslaan deed hij niet, want tussen droom en daad,
Staan wetten in de weg en praktische bezwaren,
En ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren,
En die des avonds komt, wanneer men slapen gaat.

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16353224


Dominance

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

Oops wrong link

http://evolvingmind.info/blog/2010/01/the-bonobos-darker-side/

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

23 (edited by Wild Flower Soul 06-Aug-2012 14:38:01)

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

Einstein, your "triggers" do not suffice to explain homosexuality among humans. Not even among all other species either, as RD clearly proved.

Anyway, I stressed that homosexuality occurs in nature. The reasons for it are unimportant as I only aimed to discard the argument of it being "unnatural". If we'd go along with your reasoning - wich I find too oversimplifying and narrow to apply rigorously - , one could even say that homosexuality is hardwired into the survival strategy of numberous species. Therefore the "unnatural" argument would be utterly invalid.

I'm sure we can all agree that human (homo)sexuality is far more complex than those three biologicly based triggers could ever explain - and biologic consequences are the only reason for Bacchus to call a homsexual relationship "unnatural". If we accept that, the concept of "(un)natural" doesn't suffice to describe it whatsoever,  and that argument has to be regarded as invalid.

"Why the name marriage since it causes conflict? Why not take a fully equivalent title and walk away with full rights?"

Cause that would be bigotry and an unequal treatment of equal citizens: "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others" surely rings a bell.

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

I don't call black men white, nor do I call Asians Red.

And there s no bigotry in that differentiation

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Religious versus Gay Rights

Why can't there be a religious and a non-religious version of marriage? Both being equal under the law. I really do not understand what the big deal is.

Je maintiendrai