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Imperial Forum → Politics → Robbery of the poor by the elite
"One of the very difficult parts of the decision I made on the financial crisis was to use hardworking people's money to help prevent there to be a crisis." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 12, 2009
So, clearly, since 2009, there has been ongoing financial crisis, and thus using 'hardworking people's money' to 'prevent' a crisis didn't happen. What was the money used for if it wasn't to prevent crisis, and how was this not robbery?
Yup
The money was used to bail out banks who made horrible decisions at the behest of government so they'd shut up about the horrendous overreach of inept/corrupt government into the economy and the massive harm it did to mankind.
Additional value from money was stolen via printing of more money. A bribe was necessary to demonstrate the usefulness of a corrupt government to banks so they'd shut up about the horrendous overreach of inept/corrupt government into the economy and the massive harm it did to mankind.
Socialists, Communists, Republicans, Democrats, and many others are all in on such thievery. Bankers and other rich elite benefit from these government heads who are all for sale. They're all in agreement on matters of government power and fiscal policy: They want the power to control markets and people. They want the power to enrich themselves via their government power.
The thread's title is misleading. The rich aren't directly robbing the poor. They're doing it through government which the poor ignorantly elect.
Additionally, it's misleading because it's not "the poor" who are being robbed but "the working." Tens of millions of able-bodied poor in the USA don't work but collect government income. Nothing can be stolen from them because they produce nothing. The working are being robbed by the elite, and the poor are complicit because they keep reelecting the elite in exchange for handouts.
The rich don't have votes; the poor do. The poor elected Bush. The poor elected Obama. The poor are going to elect Romney or Obama again. Democracy's a bitch when people are stupid.
"The money was used to bail out banks who made horrible decisions at the behest of government so they'd shut up about the horrendous overreach of inept/corrupt government into the economy and the massive harm it did to mankind."
even though it was the risky investment by the banks coupled with record low interest rates that caused thier inability to liquidate? yep sunds like the govts. problem there. there should have been no intervention. let the cards fall where they may. survival of the fittest.
it is true that printing more money effectively cut everyones pay thus reducing thier income and wealth but this in turn kept the economic wheels turning by keeping the dollar weak overshores and allowing for more exporting ability. this potentially reduced the crisis.
unfortunately there are things called lobbiest who have little to no intention to assist anyone outside of thier investors. they are there to assist companies. this isnt exactly a bad thing, we want business to thrive, but these busniesses arent solely in america, and the policies they are interested in rarely help us as american citizens, thus there should not be lobbiests in this form.
The subprime problem was a result of government meddling: Guaranteeing the bad loans it demanded banks make, in conjunction with the Fed driving down interest rates.
I'm not arguing for the bailouts: I've always been against them. I'm simply stating the fact that a lot of the failures were caused by government meddling prior to the bailouts, which I've also obviously been against.
The USA's exports are pitiful in comparison to its imports. To broadly claim that a small increase in a small number of exports because of devalued currency must inherently measure up to a loss of wealth by all members of the nation is... well, a ridiculous stretch at best. Most of the money is given to banks--even foreign banks--anyway. The net loss to the populace is huge. But banks love free money, and banks bribe big.
There will always be lobbyists in one form or another. Driving them underground would as likely make the problem worse. If we keep electing trash, we'll keep getting trash, regardless of whether they have to meet their lobbyists in private. They're already used to using lawyers to handle their bribes; they'll have no problem adjusting to using their lawyers to ensure their dealings are always legal. The practice will remain unchanged. It's better if it's out in the open. At least the knowledge is available this way, even though we (generally speaking) fail to act on it.
alright can't argue that. or at least i wont haha. best statement i've seen you make yet
Yes, there are some things even Kemp and I agree on...
"The thread's title is misleading. The rich aren't directly robbing the poor. They're doing it through government"
It is the rich who benefit from and support the continuance of the corruption you and I abhor, Kemp.
"Additionally, it's misleading because it's not "the poor" who are being robbed but "the working."
I don't distinguish from the working and the poor, Kemp. The poor are poor not because they don't work, but because the work they do does not afford them the fulfillment of their basic needs.
Most people are poor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffa2ln1DgvE
" The poor are poor not because they don't work, but because the work they do does not afford them the fulfillment of their basic needs."
Then they need to find different work.
"It is the rich who benefit from and support the continuance of the corruption you and I abhor, Kemp."
Yeah, they're buying politicians. But they're not the only ones benefiting from and supporting corruption. The populace is voting in the trash. Enough of the populace is unwilling to work and happy to vote for corruption as long as they keep getting a free check.
This is democratic government when a large portion of the voter base is corrupt garbage who will vote anyone in for a bribe check, regardless that it'll collapse the government (and that government will, through printing money, collapse the economy on its way down).
My point being that, since democratic government has obvious advantages over autocracy, it's unproductive to blame the rich for the corruption and complacence of the poor (and everyone who supports the corrupt state). The rich have very few votes. We, the people, don't need to hang them: We just need to vote out their pawns and reinstate principled (limited) government.
"I don't distinguish from the working and the poor, Kemp. The poor are poor not because they don't work, but because the work they do does not afford them the fulfillment of their basic needs."
They don't do any work, so references to it are nonsensical. Furthermore, available work they decline does afford fulfillment of basic needs and more: That's why illegals perform the labor, fulfill their basic needs, and still have money to send home and buy Mister Spock tequila shots. They really do. I've seen them do it. My memory admittedly gets hazy after the last part though.
Many of the poor choose not to work because it offers them no significant standard of living over welfare and other government income. Rent, food, cell phones all covered separately, with money to spare for air conditioning, a car, cable TV, and drugs.
I'm not making any claims as to the numbers, but any claim that everyone wants to work is just laughably ignorant.
"" The poor are poor not because they don't work, but because the work they do does not afford them the fulfillment of their basic needs."
Then they need to find different work."
easily said but with first hand experience i can tell you this is not simply the case. then they need to plant money trees or invent space travel. easily said, again not the case. my freind has a job, is lucky to get 16 hours a week on top of being paid only 8.50, cant afford college but at least he has his highschool diploma, he applies every week at new places nd temp agencies, without a trade or a higher education people are easily replaced ths making it hard to find a full time job that actually pays.
i am lucky that i can afford schooling and i have a trade, i am going for EET ad im quite good with cnc programming, i got lucky to fall into this feild and have acceled ever since. i dont have trouble finding a job because i am not like most lower class people. oversimplifying statements ftw i suppose.
it is in fact better pay to lie off of the govt at this point for my freind but he chooses not to. most wouldnt think twice about doing so.
Many can gain experience from unskilled labor and advance.
Many community colleges can be payed for entirely with grants and scholarships.
Imperial Forum → Politics → Robbery of the poor by the elite
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