1 (edited by xeno syndicated 14-Jul-2012 04:21:35)

Re: Why the universe is empty...

Intelligent, sentient species construct civilization.  It is an inevitable process of any sentient beings' capacity to question the nature of their existence.  The process of developing civilization, then, inevitably leads to the development of society, culture, and technology, which, SHOULD, in turn, lead to the capacity to explore and colonize the universe.  Technology should ultimately, then, develop towards a sentient species becoming immortal, their ability to time-travel, and their ability to travel between parallel universes.  The entire universe in all space-time really ought to be populated with a vast universal civilization of sentient beings; that it is NOT thus populated should be seen as something unexpected, strange, anomalous.

In other words, that we have seen no evidence of a pan-universal civilization (let alone any other sentient species) should be a warning sign to us: that developing a space-faring civilization is very difficult if not impossible.  The question should thus arise, why is it so difficult for sentient species to develop space-faring civilizations?

To answer this, we have no other reference point other than our own historical examples of the rise (and fall) of our own civilizations on our planet.  In each and every case, survival instincts, base, primal, or primitive desires we have used as the prime motivators for our behavior; systems by which human behavior is motivated inevitably appeal to these base, survival instincts; the primal motivators: greed, lust, etc.   Humans with the tendency to be motivated by these base motivators would then better fulfill their basic needs and thus breed more offspring than those who would be less driven by primal motivators.  That there are humans without these propensities to be lustful and greedy, therefore, should be seen as something anomalous, strange, WEIRD.  How it is that we even developed any awareness of higher motivators such as ethics and intelligence, or any other motivators other than those based on primitive survival instincts, should also be questioned.

Those whom we might consider intelligent and ethical, by virtue of being both ethical and intelligent, would be less motivated by base, primal motivators, and, therefore, would as such be disenfranchised from the majority.  They would be virtually ostracized in a society based on uniformity; they would be less able to fulfill basic needs in order to breed in a cooperative society where uniformity, and basic, primal motivations were espoused. Moreover, by virtue of being disenfranchised and ostracized by their very tendency to be ethical and intelligent, they would tend to disassociate themselves from those who cannot perceive how unjust, inequitable, and immoral systems of civilization are; the intelligent, ethical individual, as a direct result of having transcended their base, primal, primitive motivators, would be voluntarily OPPRESSED, and, therefore, EFFECTUALLY RENDERED STERILE by their inaccessibility to the fulfillment of basic needs necessary in order to breed. 

In a civilization where it is by being selfish, greedy, self-centered, lust-driven, deceitful, predatory, etc. garners one the resources necessary to breed, produce and look after offspring, those with the predisposition to be greedy, self-centered, lust-driven, deceitful, predatory, etc., would be more biologically successful.  If there are any ethical, intelligent sentient humans on our planet, then, or if there are any ethical, intelligent beings in the entire universe, then, it must be seen as some sort of miraculous, unexplainable phenomenon running counter all rational probability.

The reason that the universe is apparently void of any universal civilization, or any space-faring civilization at all, therefore, is that life inevitably fails to transcend its base, primitive nature, BECAUSE any initial civilization it creates (a civilization upon which its opportunity to colonize space must necessarily depend) inevitably causes the 'de-evolution' of sentient species.

In hunter-gatherer societies, those in which humans initially evolved, it was those humans who lived in cooperative, trusting, egalitarian social relationships who were more likely to survive.  In short, in hunter gatherer societies, it was the ethical and intelligent who survived.  In civilization, by contrast, which fostered the biological success of those with opposite tendencies: greed, lust, apathy, it was the greedy, lustful, and apathetic which survived.  In short, the unintelligent and unethical have been more successful biologically in social systems of past civilizations, which, inevitably, over time, has lead to the collapse of said past civilizations, long before said sentient beings developed the capacity to colonize the cosmos.

We have seen civilizations rise and fall.  For ours to be any different, and for human civilization to be expand to the stars, ours should be a civilization which continues the process of evolution of our species, rather than its de-evolution: the same traits which were rewarded in hunter-gather societies (cooperation, sharing of resources, egalitarianism) MUST continue to be fostered in our systems of civilzation, lest we, like all other sentient species to have ever evolved everywhere, in every time, will likewise never reach the stars.

Re: Why the universe is empty...

No one reply!

Do not feed the troll!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Why the universe is empty...

^

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Why the universe is empty...

but such a society would be a closed system and not send its resources outside the community as space voyages

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Why the universe is empty...

Fail yell!  tongue

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Why the universe is empty...

"There's a post in forum, and I open the thread and get trolled? Is that what you see for me? Let me tell you...I'M THE ONE WHO TROLLS"

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Why the universe is empty...

The universe is not empty,lots of stuff is flying around up there.
Occasionally some of this stuff will come falling down on our heads.
Then Og the caveman  will be the new standard for the next several thousand years.

The inmates are running the asylum

8 (edited by Zarf BeebleBrix 20-Jul-2012 15:53:51)

Re: Why the universe is empty...

[Spam, utterly unnecessary, and trolling]

Re: Why the universe is empty...

it would take another million years to evolve to the point where we'd eat an octopus for pleasure

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

10 (edited by esa 14-Jul-2012 01:15:00)

Re: Why the universe is empty...

Well,the chinese eat dogs and americans peanut butter.Thats halfway though the evolution.

The inmates are running the asylum

Re: Why the universe is empty...

peanut butter is proof of God

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Why the universe is empty...

200 years - that's all we've got left: our window of opportunity as a species to get ourselves out into the cosmos.

Re: Why the universe is empty...

we'll never make it if you keep resenting accumulation of wealth

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Why the universe is empty...

I resent the way wealth is being used.

15 (edited by xeno syndicated 14-Jul-2012 04:48:24)

Re: Why the universe is empty...

> xeno syndicated wrote:

> I resent the way wealth is being used.

Correction: I resent the way wealth is garnered as well as the way it is being used: both are antithetical to the survival of our species, and THEREFORE, such is a crime against humanity.

Re: Why the universe is empty...

Maybe the universe is so big, so mind-boggling big that its huge size cannot be comprehended. That space travel and colonisation of space would take billions of years.

Re: Why the universe is empty...

garnered = accumulated

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

18 (edited by xeno syndicated 14-Jul-2012 17:49:32)

Re: Why the universe is empty...

> The Yell wrote:

> garnered = accumulated

Sure.  So what?

I'll use the word accumulated, then:

I do not resent THAT wealth is accumulated; I resent HOW wealth is accumulated, and HOW it is spent.

Clear, Yell?

19 (edited by xeno syndicated 14-Jul-2012 18:24:48)

Re: Why the universe is empty...

I also resent how it is taxed.  As i have said before, wealth should be taxed, not income.  That is, the total accumulated wealth should be taxed, not the accumulation of wealth itself.

For instance, take Fred who has a total accumulated wealth of 10 million.  He sits on his ass everyday collecting the interest gained in low-risk investments, and lives off that income.  His house, car, kids uni education, everything is paid-off.  He sits around at the pub all day shooting the shit, living off the interest and PAYING NOTHING IN TAXES, because the interest gained is considered a low-income (maybe its 20k a year).  Heck.  This guy even collects low-income benefits. 

Jason, on the other hand, DOES have a mortgage, has to save income for his kids to go to university, car-payments, etc. - this guy has to earn 50k / year just to make ends meet; can't afford to put anything way for his retirement; has to work his ASS off just to get by, and he's paying TAXES, funding the millionaire's 'low-income' benefits.  It's absolutely INSANE!

But its not even remotely as insane as what government spends taxes on (wars, techno-fix social programs that don't SOLVE social problems but actually perpetuate them so as to justify the necessity of social programs); not even remotely as insane as what consumers spend their money on: gas-guzzling cars every few years which if not for planned obsolescence could run perfectly well for hundreds of years without much maintenance, new electronic gizmos every couple years which software industry conspires to make necessary for us to buy so their hardware companies can keep running, over-priced goods made pennies on the dollar that they are actually sold for, with markups of many thousands of percents to oligarchs of supply chains - places like Hong Kong and Singapore - and don't get me started on how much banks make on mortgages for housing.  Generally, people generally are duped into spending ridiculous amounts simply for basic goods and services, not knowing the INSANE amount banks make lending out FAKE MONEY to prop-up an inherently corrupt system.

We need to tax accumulated WEALTH; not income - this would be far more equitable.  And government needs to break up oligarchies; justice systems need to enforce anti-trust laws, and broaden the definition of anti-trust activities.  The tendency needs to be for us to cut-out middle-men in transactions.  There is less need for them in an inter-connected world where with a text-message a consumer could order something direct from a manufacturer ANYWHERE in the world and have it arrive at their home the next bloody day! Manufacturers, independent artisans, engineers, inventors, the guy in some backwater town in China or India who collects copper wire and other things out of trash sites and who sits in his hut all day making hand-made widgets - they all need to start coming out with apps so that consumers ANYWHERE can place orders with THEM directly.

We've got 200 years left to get off this rock, and the powers that be are CONSPIRING against HUMANITY from accomplishing this; sabotaging this our one and only chance to expand to the stars.

We simply won't have the resources to send anyone who wants to go; we'll only have enough resources to send the elite few who will have exploited the majority so as to afford to go.

We should be setting up our launch to the stars so that ANYONE who wants to go will be able to, not only an elite few, who, after ruining this planet, who, after extracting all the wealth they possibly could from it, who, after exploiting the vast majority of their kind, abscond with the profits, leaving the rest of us to a subsistence survival on a desolate, ruined Earth, which may or may not EVER recover.

We have to set up our launch properly; it's obviously not going to be an easy task.

20 (edited by Zarf BeebleBrix 20-Jul-2012 15:54:42)

Re: Why the universe is empty...

[Spam]

Re: Why the universe is empty...

Fine.  Explain to me how I become a billionaire in your just, sharing, egalitarian society.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Why the universe is empty...

I am Fred... I just got delayed by my Depression... life sucks I am over it.

And Jason can be Flint... I mean Fred... as well if he saves, pays off the house early, and plans smartly.


Xeno is jealous of farmers handing down property to their children, a Grandma handing a house over to her favorite grand daughter, to the son who got the vintage car from his passed away dad.

Taxing wealth indeed... taking everyones possessions and preventing upward mobility for families.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Why the universe is empty...

I see you snuck it past. 

Yes you oppose the existence of wealth, and want it eradicated by government action. 

Your progressive stance has destroyed the great personal fortunes in the Western world.   Instead people put their wealth into corporations, whcih unlike Vanderbilts and Fords and Carnegies, do not die out.  People want to earn off their investment.  People want to put X into an enterprise and get back X+Y.  There is no social continuity if giving X to old man Peters who can't even stand up without help, means your investment dies with him.  There will still be no social continuity if his heirs are punished for having 10 million dollars in wealth dropped in their lap, and it is consumed by the state.

The caring, progressive, egalitarian state is not a vehicle for progress.  It is regressive.  It consumes achievement. It stifles innovation.  It cripples solutions.  It wants stability and division over growth and invention.  Obama has proved that here - he talks a lot of crap about change and finding solutions outside the box, but, when it comes to energy, he will only accept the death of the petrochemical industry -- even if he wastes billions of dollars and costs tens of thousands of jobs and stifles recovery.  A boom in natural gas, oil and coal is not acceptable.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Why the universe is empty...

Apart from the British Royal Family, what ogliarchy of today existed in 1899?  Oil came in around 1910, I would have said "IBM" but they're not an ogliarch. Apple isn't much older than you, the telecommunications satellite was THOUGHT OF in 1957 let alone BUILT, Disney was started in the 1930s and didn't become a sure success until the 1950s...

The "repressive giants" you say are holding us back are the innovators moving our tech forwards, as their products become useful to more and more of the human race.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Why the universe is empty...

How does one become a billionaire in a society where wealth rather than income is taxed?

Well, think about it: Fred, instead of sitting on his ASS all day collecting interest from his money in the bank, has to INVEST his income in a business (if he wants to continue sitting on his ASS all day), or, oh, I don't know, ACTUALLY GO OUT AND GET A BLOODY JOB LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.  Otherwise, his wealth will get taxed down to NOTHING.  He's got to actually WORK to KEEP his wealth.

Jason, on the other hand, gets ahead, because he DOESN'T have to pay taxes until he actually garners WEALTH: when his house is paid-off; when his basic needs are fulfilled, THAT is when he starts getting taxed.

As it is, we are taxing those who can't fulfill their BASIC needs, so those who have their basic needs fulfilled and sit around on them get low-'income' benefits from government.

Seriously, who would support such an inequitable system of taxation?  Maybe those who like sitting on their ass all day garnering interest from their hoarded wealth?  Maybe guys like Fred?

The VAST majority of people are like Jason; why do our systems support people like Fred?