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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

Ok so Teddy and I decided to run a test on something because the numbers were not making sense.

HydroP - 81% Mil Bonus
Teddy - 77% Mil Bonus

Attack #1
HydroP - 135k figs
Teddy - 135k figs

Airfight Image
0 bombers crashed from defending fighters
10863 fighters lost dogfights against the defending fighters
0 transporters didn't manage to hide from the defending fighters
12147 defending fighters were shot down by the attacking air forces

Attack #2
Teddy - 124,412 figs
HydroP - 124,412 figs

Airfight Image
0 bombers crashed from defending fighters
10895 fighters lost dogfights against the defending fighters
0 transporters didn't manage to hide from the defending fighters
10127 defending fighters were shot down by the attacking air forces

The numbers show the difference with Mil Bonus going in my favor obviously as I have the higher. However, the fact that he has a 50% race bonus should have factored in making him kill more than he lost. As well, I should have killed a significant amount more than I did with my race bonus when I attacked.

So 1 of 2 things is happening:

1. Race Attack bonuses do NOT work at all.
2. Race Attack bonus is also giving the same amount of Defense Bonus (which it should not be if I am correct)

Any idea why?

Solis - #7872

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

The way to find out if #1 is correct is to have an attacker and banker with 0% Mil Research (both of them). Then Attacker attacks banker with same amount of figs...post results. Then banker attacks attacker with same amount of figs...post results.

If the numbers basically are the same we know that it does not work. If the numbers are considerably in the Attackers favor then we know that it is giving a defensive bonus as well as attack bonus.

Solis - #7872

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  • Noir
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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

Did u have no fear?

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

Looking at the numbers there has to be some skewness, either attackbonus or military science has to be better in attack than defence, as the difference is bigger when u hit him than the other way around

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

No Fear was NOT being used.

And yes I agree. There was a bit more kills by me when I attacked than there probably should have been. But if that is what the race bonus was...it is bs.

Solis - #7872

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  • Zidi
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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

To be honest, those numbers don't add up. Theres only a 4% difference but it made quite a big fighter result difference...

It seems screwy.

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  • LG
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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

aren't you at an advantage being the attacker?

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

The attack bonus does apply to defence now too I think.

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

No it doesnt, its just an inherent defencebonus in the game

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

Also, was one of you fleet admiral? Thats a 10% bonus attack isn't it?

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

That would be 5%.

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

Elro there you are big_smile

So you care to elaborate or shall we keep this a secret tongue

Btw, does the fleetadmiral 5% apply for intra fam attackers, and is it both attack and defence?

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

The Riddler wrote:

2. Race Attack bonus is also giving the same amount of Defense Bonus (which it should not be if I am correct)

I'm pretty sure this has always been the case. Judging by all the crazy reports I've seen over the years, especially the huge losses bankers always take when hitting an attacker, this has been the only thing that has made sense to me.

Alas we have never had access to the actual formula, and those who do aren't supposed to let in on it, so it's still a secret tongue

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

Genesis.

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

Torqez.

Modestus Experitus

Arby: A very strict mod, reminds me of a fat redneck who drives a truck around all day with a beer in one hand. I hated this guy at the start, however, I played a round in PW with him where he went as an anonymous player. Our fam got smashed up and everyone pretty much left. Arby stayed around and helped out the remaining family. At the end of the round he revealed himself.... My views on him have changed since. Your a good guy.....

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

there yoiu are!

21:19] <&James|sunstorm> any body name james is punishble by raid or nuke
[21:19] * UnDeath is now known as James
[21:19] * James ([email protected]) Quit ( NickServ (GHOST command used by James|sunstorm) )

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

Yay!

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

So here's a test with the following data:

Player A has 50% race attack bonus.  Player B has 0% race attack bonus.


Fight #1.  Player A attacks Player B.  Both have 100,000 fighters.

8333 fighters lost dogfights against the defending fighters
8594 defending fighters were shot down by the attacking air forces

Fight #2.  Player B attacks Player A.  Both again have 100,000 fighters.

12500 fighters lost dogfights against the defending fighters
5469 defending fighters were shot down by the attacking air forces

According to the guide, fighters have equal attack/defense so something is definitely off here, a few things even.

#1) Attack bonus is working, but to a trivial degree.
#2) Attacker with attack bonus is getting a huge defense bonus.

I suppose the negative of the first point is being balanced out by the positive of the second point, but still this is wonky and should definitely be fixed.  I'm going to test some more to get my head around the numbers, but if anybody thinks I'm misinterpreting the results here please say so. It is late here after all =P

Hope to have this sorted soon, thanks for your patience everybody.

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

Just in case...

Try a custom race versus a noncustom race.

The error might be in custom race settings...

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

it's possible.  should be easy enough to test a default race vs a custom w the same attack bonus.

so here's a new and interesting test.  this is two 0% attack bonus races, but the first one has 150,000 fighters and the second one still has 100,000 fighters.  in theory, the results of the last test and this test should be the same.  but they're not:


Fight #1.  Player A (150k) attacks Player B (100k).

12500 fighters lost dogfights against the defending fighters
8594 defending fighters were shot down by the attacking air forces

Fight #2.  Player B (100k) attacks Player A (150k).

18750 fighters lost dogfights against the defending fighters
5078 defending fighters were shot down by the attacking air forces


That first fight in particular is what interests me.  He has 50% more of a fighter fleet yet still takes the bigger hit.  If fighter attack/defense were really the same, this wouldn't be the case.  So either the guide is wrong, or there's some defensive bonus being factored in somewhere that I can't yet find.

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

The only functions should be:
Attacker
Check Race attack bonus
Check War
Check Combat Tag
Check Science
Check Defense Station
Check fleet

Defender
Check protection mode
Check race bonus
Check war
Check tag
Check science
Check fleet

Results
Formula

There is also the morale check, planet id check, system check and galaxy check but these 'should' not tie into combat results.

Potentially the problem is in the formula stage where it appears to me that instead of calculating the difference and using this to determine the loss ratio it is instead using a fixed value.

The other potential cause is that it is missing a step in the formula checking stage where it renders the numbers to a ratio value (assuming it does)

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

Attacker B lost the same in both cases, but in the case with 50% attack the attacker lost 50% more Fighters.

I suggest there is an issue in losses, not attack.

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23 Reply by Jaguar (edited by Jaguar 26-Jul-2012 13:31:17)

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

I dont see any bug here. You ppl are missing a variable.

I like pie u are thinking/evaluating airfights in a, shall we say 'wrong', way.. this is not how they work.

Will post details later when im free

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

are u that free?

and have u randomed into MW yet?

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Re: Attack Bonus Fault

Jaguar, I think you are right about me misinterpreting.  After thinking about this again, I'm realizing that 100k fighters w 50% attack bonus is not the same as 150k fighters.  150k actual fighters will also add defensive power to the fight, whereas 100k with the bonus should (i think) only boost the attack power of each individual fighter in this example.  So considering that, these two test fights should actually not be the same in theory.

Still though, it feels like something is wrong.  Thinking about the first test again:

Fight #1.  Player A (50% attack bonus) attacks Player B.  Both have 100,000 fighters.

8333 fighters lost dogfights against the defending fighters
8594 defending fighters were shot down by the attacking air forces

The bonus seems to have a very small affect here.

Fight #2.  Player B attacks Player A (50% attack bonus).  Both again have 100,000 fighters.

12500 fighters lost dogfights against the defending fighters
5469 defending fighters were shot down by the attacking air forces

If it's purely an "attack" bonus, then both players in this example should have similar losses as Player A's attack bonus shouldn't come into play here.


Of course, I'm open to to hear your interpretation.  After all, if you're right and there is no bug, then I can go work on something else. =P

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