Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

> Justinian I wrote:

> Xeno,

Teaching and running universities can be based on merit. I also have nothing against attending 4 year universities for the same, but the problem is that too many idiots enter them and quality suffers as a result. So IQ results for entrance out of High School, or satisfactory accomplishment at a 2 year college.

I actually disagree with IQ results for entrance to university (and teaching / administering university); however, I also disagree with the current merit system / GPA system.

The reason: neither GPA, IQ, or merit (however you determine it) is an accurate measure of a student's aptitude for success at university or for that matter the real world.  But more importantly, nor is it an accurate measure of the extent to which they deserve the opportunity to attend university and thus the opportunity to attain gainful employment.

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

you should edit the xeno quote in your sig to say "was" a true statement

So I told the cop, "No YOU'RE driving under the influence... of being a JERK!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFjjO_lhf9c

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

> dpenguins wrote:

> you should edit the xeno quote in your sig to say "was" a true statement

Nope, I shouldn't.  'were' is technically grammatically correct.

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

william wallace disagrees

So I told the cop, "No YOU'RE driving under the influence... of being a JERK!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFjjO_lhf9c

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

> dpenguins wrote:

> william wallace disagrees




Why do you even speak anymore?

[13:43] <@RisingDown> never thought i'd say it, but TBO actually did something useful.
[13:43] <@arsy> dont let him see you say that
[13:43] <@RisingDown> oh shit
[13:43] * You were kicked from #room by arsy (kapow!)

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

I think you need a conditional for "were" to be correct. Considering that my first impulse is that you're wrong and you think you're right, we can safely conclude with 100% certainty that you're wrong.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure we could strongly correlate GPA/IQ to a student's aptitude for success. This would constitute an "accurate measure."

I forget: if you don't want to believe it, it's not true. Even if it's obviously and undeniably true. Just make shit up. This is a forum for intellectually limited children. Woohoo let's share stupid ideas. Learning is hard. Self-esteem is always desirable for its own sake!

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

57 (edited by BeoWolfe 13-Jun-2012 16:32:07)

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

Xeno says->The reason: neither GPA, IQ, or merit (however you determine it) is an accurate measure of a student's aptitude for success at university

GPA is your grade point average over your 4 year high school career... why wouldn't your score on your how well you did studying be a bais on how well you most like will continue to study?  In baseball if a batter carries a .325 batting average for 4 years he is an estibished batter - you can assume the next year he will bat around .325.


Xeno says->I also have nothing against attending 4 year universities for the same, but the problem is that too many idiots enter them and quality suffers as a result.

I have to disagree here too.  The more morons that pay into a university the lower the tuition becomes thus making college economically attainable by a larger amount of citizens.  Morons will generally gravitate to easier classes like liberal studies (basket weaving, art history, interperative dance, ect...) so outside of there first semester they are no longer in the way of people going to school to actually learn something useful.

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

Too bad their numbers increase the profit potential of idiot farms, attract corruption and government money, and result in the massive welfare fraud scheme that is Amerikan higher education today. tongue

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

59 (edited by Justinian I 13-Jun-2012 22:21:05)

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

No, the dramatic increase in imbeciles attending University actually increases the cost of education. The reasons are that the imbeciles increase the demand for financial aid and the supply of teaching can not keep up with demand for teaching, which causes demand-pull inflation of the price of education.

Xeno,

GPA and IQ may not guarantee a person's aptitude, but it strongly correlates with it. For those who can demonstrate their merit despite poor scores, success in a community or technical college should be available. The fact is that the demand for University education must drop for the good of everyone. Otherwise, everyone suffers. For example, the average IQ of college graduates was almost 115 in the 1950s, and it's roughly 104 in the present. This explains why education no longer has the value it once had. Now people have to get a degree in order to be considered for jobs they didn't even need the degree for. That hurts the working class. By artificially increasing college attendance, the government has effectively created a class system, where having a university degree is usually a prerequisite to enter the middle class.

60 (edited by xeno syndicated 14-Jun-2012 18:22:11)

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

Re GPA, IQ, Merit:

When those who by their IQ and GPA are positioned in the system whereby their occupations further the process of systemic injustice, they derive no merit; unfortunately, one's success at university is determined by their GPA, when "success" should rather be determined by how their occupation during their career after completing university 'successfully' diminishes the prevalence of systemic injustice in our world.

In other words, when the higher an individual's GPA results in that individual working in an occupation whereby their efforts perpetuate rather than diminish the prevalence of systemic injustice in the world; when the higher the IQ of an individual is determined by how well that individual performs "rote recall" rather than critical thinking and creative problem solving and thereby makes them subservient to the ongoing perpetuation of an inherently unjust system, neither can one's GPA, their merit by how they perform in their future career, nor their IQ, be considered as 'successes'.

61 (edited by The Yell 14-Jun-2012 16:10:33)

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2012/06/man_likely_sickened_by_plague.html


A man hospitalized in Bend is likely suffering from the plague, marking the fifth case in Oregon since 1995.

The unidentified man, who is in his 50s, fell ill several days after being bitten while trying to get a mouse away from a stray cat. The man is now being treated at St. Charles Medical Center-Bend, where he was listed in critical condition on Tuesday.

"This can be a serious illness," said Emilio DeBess,  Oregon's public health veterinarian. "But it is treatable with antibiotics, and it's also preventable."

The Black Death raged through Europe during the Middle Ages, killing about a third of the population. Today, the disease is rare, but the bacteria have never disappeared.

The man, who lives in rural Crook County, was bitten Saturday, June 2. He developed a fever a few days later. By Friday, June 8, he was so sick that he checked himself into St. Charles Medical Center-Redmond. He was later transferred to the larger facility in Bend.

Karen Yeargain,  communicable disease coordinator with Crook County Health Department, said lab tests are being done to confirm whether the man has the plague, but she said he is suffering from classic symptoms.

There's one bacterium that causes the disease -- Yersinia pestis -- but it can develop into three types of illnesses depending on how an individual's body reacts. Initially, the man had swollen lymph nodes -- a sign of bubonic plague -- but now he's showing signs of septicemic  plague, when the bacteria multiply in the bloodstream. Symptoms include abdominal pain, bleeding mouth, nose or rectum and dying tissue. The third type is pneumonic plague, which affects the lungs.

DeBess said it's not clear whether the man was bitten by the mouse or by the cat. The feline died, and its body has been sent to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for testing. The cat was abandoned in the man's neighborhood about six years ago and stuck around. Yeargain said the man and his family had a lot of contact with it. He was bitten on the hand.

"Taking a mouse out of a cat's mouth is probably not a good idea," DeBess said.

Plague bacteria are carried by fleas, which typically infest rodents. People can become infected through flea bites or through contact with an infected animal. Some animals, including dogs, that have been exposed to the bacteria carry antibodies but do not get the plague and are not infectious.

DeBess said Oregon has a record of plague cases dating to 1934, with about a case a year and some periods when no cases appear. The prevalence of the disease depends in part on the weather and food supplies. When rodents flourish, so do fleas. That increases the likelihood of infection.

A total of four people in Oregon died from the plague since 1934, DeBess said.

The four people sickened in the past 17 years

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

Parents paid for 8 years of vetinary college to develop this stellar conculsion...

"Taking a mouse out of a cat's mouth is probably not a good idea," DeBess said.

I (having not spent 1 day in vet college) will go on record to say it's DEFINATELY not a good idea.


"BTW Einstein has never denounced squirrels, handling dead mice or the plague he is pro plague!  it's a war on black poor women!!!1!"

True, rumor also has it that the first 200 people who vote for him get a commorative dead possum to play with.  In other unsubstatiated news, Jessie Jackson is will be demanding that Emilo DeBess be tried for murder.  He is claiming the only reason he is killing this plague is because its black and that the fact the plague was attacking a man has nothing to do with it.

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

xeno zzz,

"When those who by their IQ and GPA are positioned in the system whereby their occupations further the process of systemic injustice...."

Hahaha xeno hates the free market. He hates merit-based systems. Idiots should be heart surgeons and nuclear physicists! Anything else is unjust! So what if I'm lazy and will make a shitty city manager? Give me the job or I'll cry that the system is unjust. Lazy people should be payed the same! And get the same jobs!

"one's success at university is determined by their GPA, when "success" should rather be determined by how their occupation during their career after completing university 'successfully' diminishes the prevalence of systemic injustice in our world."

It already is. The smarter you are and the harder you work, the more job and advancement opportunities you have available. This increases your pay, which is a great systematically just way to balance out those systematically unjust bloated training/education costs. This increases your pay, which is a great systematically just way to balance out the unfairness of the world.

Free markets are systematically just. Everybody gets what they earn. And what they earn is worth more, buys more. w00t w00t. You should learn about capitalism and why it's the best option. You should learn about freedom and why it's the best option. It's the cure for all of the systematic injustices which you constantly complain about.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

64 (edited by xeno syndicated 14-Jun-2012 18:49:08)

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

/ignore Kemp off

Free market?  I am all for the free market.  Unlike you, I am simply not under the delusion that it hasn't been thoroughly subverted (and is currently being more so subverted) by so called 'liberal democratic' governments:

Here is a current example:

http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120614/marathon-voting-session-commons-120614/20120614/?hub=OttawaHome

Interesting read isn't, of course, the actual article, which is simply regurgitation of dumb-ed down officialdom psuedotruths, but, rather the comment section at the end.  read the comments Kemp, and educate yourself on how disillusioned and disenfranchised the public is becoming.

Give your head a shake, Kemp.  You are an ideologue, a propagandist for the blind, absurd, unfounded, fanciful belief that there is anything even remotely of the sort of a free market.  It's used by those who have subverted it as an apologetik for further tyrannical subversion of the free market. 

/ignore kemp on

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

lol what a joke.

I love how you pretend 0% of the free market survives. You demand a government-run "free market." What you call for isn't a free market. You ask for systemic justice, I argue that the free market is systemic justice.

I've never argued that our free markets aren't significantly less free than they should be. You're just attacking straw-men and calling me names. And ignoring the points.

I love how you ignored my points regarding merit. You stated a ridiculous demand that merit not be rewarded, then ignored the topic after you got stomped. Very mature.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

This article hits the nail on the head:

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1211898--burman-while-the-g20-leaders-fiddle-greece-burns


I especially like the quote from Der Spiegel Magazine:

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

Chris a little birdy told me to look in here.

X(

Quote
Don't feed or unfeed the animals.
/Quote

There, I am on record.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

Greece caused Greece to burn.

Germany isn't burning.

Maybe there's something to be said for not bankrupting one's nation and ruining its people's standard of living?

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

Something I should mention:

There are such things as market failures that require government intervention. Examples include markets such as power companies where economies of scale ensure that the market will favor a monopoly or oligopoly. In such cases, it's essential that the government impose price controls.

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

That can be handled with economically/mathematically sound regulations and some regulators with a little power.

Instead, we get massive government bureaucracies with too much power who get in bed with monopolistic extortion rather than fight it.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

Quick report Kemp to other libertarians for supporting regulations!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

Equating libertarian ideals with anarchy is a stupid straw man. What a joke.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

"
Instead, we get massive government bureaucracies with too much power who get in bed with monopolistic extortion rather than fight it."

OMG, I can't believe I am going to say this:

Kemp, I AGREE with you!

74 (edited by V.Kemp 17-Jun-2012 01:55:10)

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

I think it should be fought with an educated populace and a limited government enforcing sensible laws.

You think it should be fought with an all-powerful government with the power to do and run literally everything.

We differ on the solution. I believe man is corruptible and systems must be made with this in mind. You have a loooooot of faith in the incorruptibility of man. tongue

It's not that I disagree that free markets are hindered all over the place in Amerika today. But to pretend they're 100% gone and don't produce many results in many areas is silly. Let's be honest. They're under assault all over the place, harming everyone and society as a whole. But they're not extinct.

I think one of the biggest things rarely discussed in Amerika today are the hidden costs of government/corporate corruption. For every dollar wasted because of statism and corruption of the free market, for every dollar wasted by redundant and corrupt bureaucracy, for every dollar printed to pay for this nonsense, we're paying the price. Sooner or later taxes and/or inflation balance everything. We're getting nothing for free. No idiot bureaucrat is harmless. Ultimately, one way or another, the cost of this massive waste is taxed/inflated out of the wealth/standard of living of every American. Don't get me wrong, I think this is a HUGE issue and it doesn't get 1% of the attention it deserves today.

You can't buy a bloody gallon of milk or a loaf of bread without literally dozens of taxes and regulations (some are necessary/good, but we have significantly more than that) increasing its cost several times over. Add inflation to the mix and people are enjoying literally a fraction of the income they gain through their contribution to society, thanks to waste and corruption.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Justify Your Government's Legitimacy

> Justinian I wrote:

> Something I should mention:

There are such things as market failures that require government intervention. Examples include markets such as power companies where economies of scale ensure that the market will favor a monopoly or oligopoly. In such cases, it's essential that the government impose price controls.


The problem is, Justinian, that government intervention is the norm.  I liken it to this metaphor: capitalism is a river.  Over the years, they have put in dams, locks, flooded entire valleys and created lakes, built networks of canals, dykes - all of it requiring so many controls and maintenance that perpetual intervention is necessary to keep the system running.   Yet they claim that essentially it is a river that doesn't need any controls.  It's hypocrisy!  They should never have tried to control the river in the first place.

Now the river is shifting, as rivers always do, eventually.  This river wants to shift away from all the useless infrastructure they've constructed over the years; it is shifting so towards the path of least resistance, naturally.  Yet instead of letting it shift, they are falling heads over heals sandbagging the infrastructure that justifies their continued intervention, terrified that if the river shifts as they see it wants to, all of their infrastructure will be rendered redundant.

There's no distinguishing between left and right wing, private or public corporations, legislatures / state-sponsored criminality / justice systems - it's all a fiasco.