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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

Hey I was doing some calcs, and I don't see how pop banking is efficient. The only POSSIBLE way I can think of, is that OB costs would be less since they are more expensive, so you need to build less to get the same income, but is that worth the increased risk of being op'd?

Assuming 1 iron = 13 gc (average market price estimate)...

-1 CF costs 250 gc. 1 LQ costs 525 gc.

-1 CF gives 8 income. 1 LQ gives 21.66 income.

-Normalized, this gives...

1 CF gives 16.8. 1 LQ gives 21.66

-Including food costs for 650 people/LQ, 1 LQ gives 15.16 gc.


Am I missing something??

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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

http://www.imperialconflict.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=34404

that topic went through it.

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  • Zidi
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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

Ok, so i think i covered it pretty well in that thread, which funnily enough i wrote just before i quit for 4 years, so was a bit funny to read it again. Knowing it was me posting, but feels like someone else. Was funny.

Anyways, in short comparisons like you do fall down flat due to three main reasons.

a) TO percentages
b) Pop banking gets two science options, which compound. 50% welfare with 50% income leads to a total income increase of 125% (food comes into though)
c) Overbuilding is less, and empire size costs is mitigated through opping the pop bankers population to drop his networth

Pop banking gives greater income but is more risky, so its always best to go with 1 pop banker supported by many cf bankers. If your round is going well you feed the cf bankers heaps of planets early on to speed their growth and then later on you can jump the pop banker for massive income late round which is great for saving for wars and the like.

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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

not entirely true
last round my fam went with 4 pop bankers and completely owned the infra scene in MW
of course the only attacker that didnt go inactive was Rest, so we couldnt do much with it...

NEE NAW NEE NAW

Primo

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  • Zidi
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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

I've always be interested in trying that but never been able to convince people to go along with it.

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  • Noir
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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

Zidi pretty much sums it up imo, and since that thread was active popping has been buffed even more.

Before there used to be a big argument that CFers were faster early and allowed you to fight alot more. While this is still true, its a much lesser factor than it used to be, and you see families having poppers right off the bat and not being punished for it.

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

Look....noir is a douche...
Scientifically proven fact

but........

The man knows his shit wen it comes to makin the moolaaahhh

<3 u noir

<StrykerKp> whos the sxy guy?
<Snailex> banksy
<StrykerKp> o ok

I don't fight great wars  .......  I fund them!

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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

isn't it also true that lq has 650 pop now.. all the strategies i read include lq to have 500 pop.. this is a fatal flaw in strategies.. and Tax offices have a max income now.. it used to be 100 % tax offices gives 200% income .. now the max is 50 so 25% max..

damm.. i need to completely rethink my strategies.. X( these tax office changes.. when did they happen? i never saw it in announcements

Dutch bastard

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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

there is no maximum for TO bonus.

'Success! The realm of Genesis has been reduced to dust! Our forces are leaving the planet though, as it is scheduled for demolition to make way for a new hyperspace bypass.'

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  • Noir
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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

Im once again amazed how caught up people are with the precise math, when so many mistakes are being made in other areas

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

kollop.. why than does it say that to bonus has a max in building page..??

and noir.. everyone makes mistakes.. who cares tongue

Dutch bastard

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  • Noir
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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

I care, cause it whats makes me able to beat u all wink

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

Snailsex, I calculated my income with my TO rate that is much higher than 25% and there is no 50% limit.
What is written in TO description is false.
That will be fixed!

Noir u are welcome to post ur strategies, instead of always saying that ppl suck.
That would make your victories more glorious if general level was improved wink

'Success! The realm of Genesis has been reduced to dust! Our forces are leaving the planet though, as it is scheduled for demolition to make way for a new hyperspace bypass.'

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  • Noir
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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

Well imo i made a splendig thread a year or so back where the general response was just "ill raid ur ass" tongue

My  most important message here is that people need to look at the full package of a family, not just methamatical optimization of the strategy itself (Flint style eco)

Its quite easy to set up an Excel model that includes almost all factors, and just use solver to maximize theoretical growth. The problem for many strategists is to include necessary limitations such as activity, defences, hickups etc.

From my experience last 3 rounds when my fam has been #1 in eco almost all round every round has been that the key to be successful is to always adapt swiftly and efficiently as the situation changes.

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

really smile thank you very much Kollop i was affraid it changed without being saved so in announcements.

and noir .. you do have to account for your luck.. you always start with high amounts of good randoms.. I for one have not had 1 round with more than 8 actives at SOR..

i do hope the multi thing gets fist and we should be able to kick players pre Sor so that each fam has an equal chance at having a good start..

or make it so that you random in the fam that has the least players.. that way filling up the gall gradually.. instead of 2/3 fams being at 11 or 12 players while the rest is at 5 or 7..

Dutch bastard

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  • Noir
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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

This round we were 1-2 players smaller than others fams at SOR Snail.. but ofc i see your point that amount of players matters alot.

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

And not only THE amount of players.. Also who they r..

If you get luster, artic or big fairy you might aswhell count them as -1..

Dutch bastard

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  • Noir
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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

You are underestimating the importance of guiding your players then. One thing i always make sure is to incklude new players asap and make strategies that are understandable and interesting to them. Each at his own prefferred level of involvement and complexity.

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

Dont mind noir, he's got his period

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  • Noir
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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

I dont mind snail asking questions, even if he has his period tongue

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

Noir.. I always guide newbs smile thats way more Fun anyway

Dutch bastard

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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

What Noir forgot to say is that pop banking is very vulnerable, you should always adapt your op defenses (especially wizzards) to the ennemy you are fighting because in few ticks you may have your income reduced to 0gc and put your family in serious trouble during a war. And on a middle term, have a terrible return on investissement.

'Success! The realm of Genesis has been reduced to dust! Our forces are leaving the planet though, as it is scheduled for demolition to make way for a new hyperspace bypass.'

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23 Reply by Nandro (edited by Nandro 16-Jun-2012 19:11:58)

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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

As zidi said pop banking gets more benefits out of research wich dramatically increase possibility of income. Non banking style is only one building, it's several things that affects the income so comparing only one lq with one cf gives the wrong picture.

About working with one popper and a lot of cf.s I say it's wrong also. With 4 poppers it's hard to keep everyones income down and we do have oh aswell to take in the calcs.

For me pop banking is so superior so I am always amazed that people still even bother to build them. Only thing is in SOR where it can be useful, but only for one week or so, until pop comes in.

Flag of Halland/Sweden
2004-05-24     Graduated from Virgo with flying colors!

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24 Reply by Nandro (edited by Nandro 17-Jun-2012 06:32:58)

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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

And as Snailex pointed out, lq increased with 30% and add research to that and there is no discussion left.
In SOR it's hard to prove pop banking but it doesn't take long time until its superior.
Been comparing some with cf bankers in mid round and EOR and often cf.s are like 35-40gc/cf and lq.s are as best around 185-190gc/ lq.

Flag of Halland/Sweden
2004-05-24     Graduated from Virgo with flying colors!

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  • Noir
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Re: Is pop banking efficient?

And i then have to point out two flaws in nandros logic (after 5 rounds or w/e together im still not reaching him tongue)

If 4 poppers in a fam becomes common style, people will adapt, and have 2-3 partaxes, it worked for us last round cause people didnt see it comming.

And ive told you this a million times, but please do not compare 1 CF to one LQ, you need to compare the CF/TO combination to the LQ/TO combination. Although Nandro, my conclusion is the same as yours, and i think that our fam last round should be given the credit of evolving IC into a pure popper playstyle. Its here to stay IMO. #1 fam last round and #1 fam this round.

LORD HELP OREGON

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