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Re: How much is a life worth?

Liberals put a price on life please.

After all you want universal health care...

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: How much is a life worth?

what the...

NEE NAW NEE NAW

Primo

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Re: How much is a life worth?

How much would you spend to save somebody?

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: How much is a life worth?

omg, you have flipped out.... mods please do something... some people take too much advantage of free speech.. he needs to be stopped.....

don't touch me i am contagious........;p

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Re: How much is a life worth?

honestly, ask the republicans, their the ones that spend them like tokens at a arcade.

don't touch me i am contagious........;p

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Re: How much is a life worth?

i have 2 dollars in my pocket so.... good luck ^^

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Re: How much is a life worth?

i guess the answer is "STFU and die when convenient to the State"

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: How much is a life worth?

According to my Economics textbook, $10 million.

Btw, it's a freshwater textbook.

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Re: How much is a life worth?

and how soon can you pay it back sir?..... yes we take mastercard

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Re: How much is a life worth?

Flint: there is way to value life, which amazes me that right-wing people seem to want to put a fixed value on human life, not realising that it is infinite.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

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Re: How much is a life worth?

Yeah let's put an infinite amount of money into keeping one person alive.... not like we cannot print more money....

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: How much is a life worth?

depends if the person is white or not and if male or not

So I told the cop, "No YOU'RE driving under the influence... of being a JERK!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFjjO_lhf9c

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Re: How much is a life worth?

Flint: it shouldn't matter how much money it takes to save a life, it is a fallacy to believe that there is a point at which it is too expensive.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

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Re: How much is a life worth?

Meh.  Do away with healthcare entirely.  Every time a cure, vaccine, etc. is found, Darwin's ghost kicks a baby

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

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Re: How much is a life worth?

> According to my Economics textbook, $10 million.

That's awfully high for lifetime economic output of $4M for the average Joe.

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ &#9773; Fokker

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Re: How much is a life worth?

You_Fool, you're ignoring the simple reality that the demand for certain services far exceeds the supply.

By pretending you can give everyone the most expensive, cutting-edged treatment, you end up ruining the quality of your healthcare system.

How ironic that you called it a fallacy to believe any point is too expensive. You literally cannot give everything to everyone. To pretend you can is idiotic and requires seriously fallacious reasoning.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

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17 Reply by [TI] Sitting Duck (edited by [TI] Sitting Duck 22-May-2012 19:49:06)

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Re: How much is a life worth?

In the UK a concept known as QALYs (QuAlity of Life Years) is used in the context of healthcare to determine whether a treatment is value for money. A QALY = (the number of years life is expected to be extended by a treatment)*(a factor to account for quality of life over that time).

For example if a 20 year old contracted some potentially fatal condition that could be completely cured with no adverse effects by a treatment then his/her life may be extended by 60 years (assuming 80 is average life expectancy) with quality of life factor =1, therefore QALYs = 60

If however the treatment involved amputation of the 20 year old's leg then they would still be expected to live for 60 years, but the quality of life factor would be reduced from 1 to say 0.7 (for the example's sake, I don't actually know what it would be) meaning that treatment would be expected to give 60x0.7= 42 QALYs.

Treatments are recommended or approved by an organisation called NICE (National Institute for Clinical Excellence) depending on the estimated cost per QALY. I'm not sure how much it is, but I have the number

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

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Re: How much is a life worth?

Uw temperatuur geeft aan dat u een terminal koorts,zul je niet leven. 200 graden Fahrenheit gaat naar je hersenen koken.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: How much is a life worth?

Kemp: There is a difference between doing everything we can to save people and doing everything as expensive as possible. The fact that we think that we can't afford to look after those who suffer shows that our priorities as a society are wrong. Human life is not something that should have a value on it, which is the point of this thread. This also doesn't take into account elective surgery, or non-life threatening medical problems, which should be available but then have a chance, depending on the actual issue and the adverse effect it may have on that person's quality of life.

The only thing I would place above another's  life is my own life and my family and friends over strangers.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

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Re: How much is a life worth?

a life is worth a lifetime of slavery

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Re: How much is a life worth?

"Kemp: There is a difference between doing everything we can to save people and doing everything as expensive as possible."

As expensive as possible? I never suggested that. You're responding to a straw man, ignoring my point. Are you 5? I'm not interested in conversing with 5 year olds.

Ignoring what I said and spamming generalities is not a discussion; it's not a response. It's stupid.

"Human life is not something that should have a value on it, which is the point of this thread."

No, the point of the thread is that you can't give everything to everyone. Government control requires bureaucrats to decide who gets what, as opposed to the free market providing more for more people.

I agree that human life should not have a value on it, but the government control you advocate puts a price on it, whether you ignorantly deny it or not. Ignorance may be bliss, but it can't make a case for you.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

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Re: How much is a life worth?

>>As expensive as possible? I never suggested that.
         >>By pretending you can give everyone the most expensive, cutting-edged treatment, you end up ruining the quality of your healthcare system.<<

Not your argument? It seems to me that your argument is exactly that, or am I misreading your post? Or was it you misreading my post and putting up your own straw man argument? As to the point on the thread, Flint was asking for 'liberals' to put a price on Human Life, so the point of the thread is exactly that, the sub-point / secondary point is the cost of health care. My argument is that arguing from a cost/benefit analysis is not what society should be doing in life threatening situations, which would be situations where the value of human life matters. The cost of healthcare in general is a different question and I would argue has nothing to do with the 'value of human life' but needs to take into account severity and detriment of quality of life (something like SD's calculations may work in these non-life threatening situations.)

My argument is that society has it's priorities wrong if we cannot save everyone from preventable death, or even if we don't try for unpreventable deaths. My argument is that the question is incorrect and that the implications Flint is putting forward, and that you seem to also be putting forward, are incorrect and not worthy of society. My argument does not call for state regulation or control, though in our current societal model that is probably the only way to provide the service I want, that I think society should strive for and achieve. My argument is simply that we should not put a value on Human Life and we should act as such.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

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Re: How much is a life worth?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-17921206

"The funeral of the runner who died near the finish line of the London Marathon has taken place at a church in Leicestershire... Donations to her JustGiving website jumped from

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Re: How much is a life worth?

to seriously put something productive into this thread this has to be taken situation by situation. are we talking an unknown disease? whereas keeping this person alive and/or stable at a high cost could very well save thousands of more lives.
are we talking a sting operation where a captive has extremely valuable information concearning our countries safety?
again could save more than one life.
or are we talkin about a bum on the street who has no actual way of repaying this debt and the populus would assume his debt where it seems the focus on this thread is intended. an odd situation as anyone has a potential value. again this person would have to be LIVING and in a situation where they need continous new and expensive treatments for an infinite ammount of money to be considered. and still the answer is that this healthcare can and probably will produce cheaper, effective ways to save or improve the lives of unfortunate people. it is only when money is lazily thrown at a sutiation without any means of progress in the person or in the treatment technology that there becomes any slight issue in my mind where the issue doesnt lie with keeping this person alive, rather the professionals involved.

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