Re: Why does Xeno like to drink alcohol?

Hmmm....

Alright, I'm going to send this thread back to politics, but really only in the interests of getting a discussion.

That being said, consider this a reminder: Topics are defined by their OP.  A new person reading a thread shouldn't need to go to post #63 to find out the political discussion behind a thread.  In the future, please put the political topic of discussion in the original post, as doing otherwise makes it quite difficult for people following the thread to know whether a political discussion is actually occurring, what the discussion is, or where it is.  Such threads could easily be classified as having the exact same effect as any spam thread, and could be justifiably be dealt with accordingly.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Why does Xeno like to drink alcohol?

Yay!  Back to politics!  Haha.

-1 wornstrum

Re: Why does Xeno like to drink alcohol?

Firefox mentioned a potential reason for drinking is to "blot out thinking about things like your own mortality, life & the universe, essentially the point of existence."

I don't think intelligent people need to do that more so than any other people.  I think most people in general come to terms with their "own mortality, life & the universe, essentially the point of existence" irregardless of intelligence.

No, it is certainly the political issues which drive one to drink, I think.

Re: Why does Xeno like to drink alcohol?

> xeno syndicated wrote:

> Yay!  Back to politics!  Haha.

-1 wornstrum



Let me clarify.  This isn't because Wornstrum was wrong.  Wornstrum was absolutely in his right to say your thread should probably be closed.  In fact, if I was strictly adhering to the rules, I would probably do exactly what Wornstrum said.  The only reason I'm keeping this around is for the sake of continuing discussion.  So you're out of line with rubbing it in that Wornstrum was in any way acting outside what should be done, and in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if someone else reviewing this thread closed it anyway.  hmm

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

80 (edited by V.Kemp 19-May-2012 06:33:19)

Re: Why does Xeno like to drink alcohol?

"The most intelligent and most ethical individuals perceive the following first: due to the systemically unjust structure of civilization, the pursuit and fulfillment of individual economic opportunity inevitably comes at the expense of economic opportunity of others."

hhahahha he's a cocky ignorant kid. He's like a 14 year old Wiccan offering you the secrets of the universe. Is this the desired level of discourse on this forum, that of dumb pre-teens and early teens? Ignore the spammer. Do it out of self-respect. Do it out of respect for others. Do it out of embarrassment. Just do it.

Edit: He can't be serious. This is why we know he's trolling. Or SO stupid we shouldn't encourage him to speak in public. The absolute retardation of what he posts is over-the-top. He's talking about the productivity of man like it's static and economic activity is a zero-sum-game. FIVE YEAR OLDS are smarter than that. It's not worth even explaining here. It's not a matter of opinion that when I go out and produce something that others judge worth paying me for, I've not stolen. Nobody was hurt that I produced something and was thanked by society in the forum of currency for my labor. It's a fact that things like this are false and absolutely stupid. It's a fact that, trolling or genuinely retarded, we shouldn't be letting this forum be pulled down to this level.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Why does Xeno like to drink alcohol?

> It is better than the alternative.

According to you, the reality is that society is getting progressively worse because smart people choose to not participate out of moral concerns. So, the alternative is...that smart people actually do something in society and not let society get worse, right? Yet, you think the latter is better than the former or am I missing something?

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ ☭ Fokker

Re: Why does Xeno like to drink alcohol?

We're talking about the "best" ethically and "brightest" intellectually.  What place is there for the "best" and "brightest" in a society which by their participation in it furthers the process by which the worst and brightest rather than the best and brightest gain political power?  The "best" would participate in such a system as little as possible.

Re: Why does Xeno like to drink alcohol?

The problem with Xeno's theories (and I include all of them here, not just this latest) is that he considers his knowledge and experience bank to be the grand sum of all human knowledge and experience and makes theories based on them, and places himself at the centre / most heroic position of the theory (in this case as the 'good', 'ethical' and 'intelligent' person.)

If the assumptions of this theory were correct (i.e. that intelligent, ethical people refuse to push their agendas because they perceive that life improvement is a zero-sum game at this point of our social development,) then the logical and ethical thing to do would be to craft a different society, one where this wasn't the case. A cursory look at human history would show that improvement of individuals hasn't always been a zero-sum game  and thus it is just this point in history that is, and thus a step-change is needed and the best people to provide this would be intelligent, ethical people.

Obviously there is plenty wrong with the model in the first place, especially the assumption that only intelligent people are ethical and only ethical people are intelligent.

Maybe the better thought is that people who are both ethical and intelligent are long term planners, and that the majority of the populous are more worried about the here and now (even the intelligent & ethical people, and in fact even the people who are both, despite making long term plans.) Thus because of democracy the short-term thinkers are the ones that get into power, and that short-term planning creates the environment that we are currently in, that being of greedy, power hungry individuals perverting the world society to their own personal gain.  The question becomes why haven't the intelligent + ethical people done anything about it, and the answer would be that this position in world history is new and that group of individuals have not collected their ideas and purpose into a collective voice yet, and it is possible that they never will, if because the evolution of our society is towards a greedier, more individualistic  model

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

84 (edited by xeno syndicated 21-May-2012 03:03:08)

Re: Why does Xeno like to drink alcohol?

"he considers his knowledge and experience bank to be the grand sum of all human knowledge and experience and makes theories based on them, and places himself at the centre / most heroic position of the theory"

This accusation is unwarranted.  When I have come to the point where I am not confident in my postulations, I indicate as such.  I do, however, see conclusive evidence of the accuracy of my theories, subjective as they may be.  I don't claim to have objective conclusive evidence of them.

"Obviously there is plenty wrong with the model in the first place, especially the assumption that only intelligent people are ethical and only ethical people are intelligent."

Nono.  I made it clear that there were both evil and ethical genius types.

"people who are both ethical and intelligent are long term planners"

Problem with this is that evil genius types can also be long-term planners.

"the short-term thinkers are the ones that get into power"

Evidence of this?  There are many positions of power, some held by long-term planners and some by short-term planners, the majority of whom, as evidenced by the sociological effect their plans have had on society overall, are either evil genius-types or unintelligent, which is in and of itself objective evidence (although not conclusive evidence mind you) of the veracity of my theory.


"The question becomes why haven't the intelligent + ethical people done anything about it"

Granted.  This is the question; the whole point of the thread.  Why do (people like Xeno) drink alcohol instead of doing something about it?

"the answer would be that this position in world history is new and that group of individuals have not collected their ideas and purpose into a collective voice yet, and it is possible that they never will, if because the evolution of our society is towards a greedier, more individualistic  model"

I would like to add, " and, overall, a less intelligent human species."

Re: Why does Xeno like to drink alcohol?

The problem is that most voters are as gullible and stupid as you.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Why does Xeno like to drink alcohol?

Xeno: Your thoughts have no merit as long as you place yourself as the "hero" of the theory... it becomes then a fantasy story and not a political theory...

Evidence of short-term planners in power is any and every democratically elected government, as they only make plans for 1, or maybe 2 terms of their elective cycle (somewhere around 2 - 8 years) which is not long term (i.e. decades.)

Also you might say you don't say that unethical people can't be intelligent, or the other way round, but your arguments say otherwise.  i.e. from you post:
          >>I would like to add, " and, overall, a less intelligent human species."<<

That would be you saying that becoming less 'ethical' is also becoming less intelligent, which is saying that the two concepts are interchangeable, i.e. that ethical means intelligent.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"