1 (edited by Kollop 05-May-2012 00:36:11)

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

Ok, so I am going to post some of my own personal opinions and strategies in here. I am not expecting that everyone will agree or saying this is the only way to conduct business. It is just what happens to work for me in the past and present.

If you have disagreeances by all means post them in here. If you have things you would like to add please do!! This is designed to help players go from being basic attackers to experienced.

Edit: 2 TAG points, useful thread for the community

Solis - #7872

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

Ok, so a lot of people have posted beginner strategies and basic strategies for attacking over the years. The one thing I fail to see very much of is the more in depth, detailed, strategies for players who want to become very good at attacking. Now, you can sit back and be like

Solis - #7872

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

very good guide hydro smile + 10

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

Nice one Hydro. Specifying what and how to use a anti-raid planet would be a usefull addition

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

Good thread.
I like that you talk about your family defenses before starting a fight, because a smart ennemy attacker that has the lower hand will look for the weak points in your family and will attack there.
It's always frustrating to have invested lot in a fight, have the upper hand and then be forced into a nap because ennemies raided someone undefended


It would be interesting if you have time that you explain:

-How do you calculate fleet needed for a raid? You do it but for exemple you don't tell the numbers needed to go from 200k to 5k ennemy defenses.
-Op defenses needed to protect your portals and be difficult to infil, PI, IP
-How do you stop ping pong at SOR when you try to make your core or keep a big fam away?
-Activity check and NW check before and during a war

'Success! The realm of Genesis has been reduced to dust! Our forces are leaving the planet though, as it is scheduled for demolition to make way for a new hyperspace bypass.'

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

Ok thanks Hoffman and Kollop for asking those questions. I will try to answer each one here for you.

1. What is/how do you use a anti-raid planet?

Ok, this is something that if EVERY player (besides attackers) does not have, they are setting themselves up for failure. An anti-raid planet is simply a planet where you station fleet (either figs or ground) on it and it is a direct share with preferably ALL your attackers. If you start getting raided you can presume the first 15-20 are fleet busters (if you read my above strategy) so you know that as soon as it hits those numbers and you see your ground has gotten low (100k-200k) then you pull out the fleet to protect the rest of your portals and watch as the enemy raid begins to fail. OR if you are offline your attackers can attack/take that planet which will force those troops back into the main fleet and protect your portals. You should always keep your attackers abreast of what planet it is and make sure the fleet on it is relative to what a raid is going to look like.

Attackers, if you know a player is going to have a raid planet and you have the extra fleet why not send an extra 10 fleets designed to destroy his anti-raid defenses? As soon as you fail one and realize that he has pulled his troops out you just start bashing that fleet with your "reserves". This is not a fool proof plan as it will be hard to know how much he is going to pull out. But it doesn't hurt you to try. If you succeed...you rape him. If you don't, then thats just the way things work out sometimes.

2. How do you calculate fleet needed for a raid?

When trying to run down fleet the idea is to get as close to maxing the enemy as you can with each attack. So if you know you have the fleet to do so, then just run the numbers needed. Keep in mind that you have 50% ATK race bonus and then your MIL % in research (as well as NO FEAR). That can be a significant amount power when crushing someone's ground.

You ask for numbers if i was trying to take someone from 200k to 5k. What I do is a little bit different from what I just said because personally I do not care about maxing them. All I want to do is keep my losses at half of theirs. The easiest way I have found to do that is by adding the %'s. I try to keep my military science as an extra bonus and will not use it. Therefore I would start by sending:

1 fleet of 300k (atk power 480k)
1 fleet of 275k (atk power 440k)
1 fleet of 250k (atk power 400k)
2 fleets of 200k (atk power 320k)
3 fleets of 175k (atk power of 280k)
3 fleets of 150k (atk power of 240k)
4 fleets of 100k (atk power of 160k)
1 fleet of the following sizes (90k, 80k, 70k, 60k, 50k, 45k, 40k, 35k, 30k, 25k)
5 fleets of 20k
5 fleets of 15k
5 fleets of 10k

Total = 3.35mil ground

You can be assured if you are able to send that, you will crush him for sure. You can get away with using less but it becomes risky sometimes with the drop off as you get to your lower fleets.

3. Op defenses needed to protect your portals and be difficult to infil, PI, IP?

This one can be tricky because so many people do not build enough defenses to stop bankers and attackers from opping them or they go overboard and build too much thinking it will stop that pax who has jumped 5 million wizards. The general thing you are told is 10-15% of your NW should be wizzies/agents. To be honest, I have stopped caring about whether people can PI or IP me. Who cares? The things I want to make difficult are infils, DU's, and CPFF's. Those are the things that make life hard for your enemies when they cannot get that information. To do this I would suggest having a 20-23% ratio of agents/wizzies and if your NW is a bit higher than you like, give up some ground to make sure you have it.

4. How do you stop ping pong at SOR when you try to make your core or keep a big fam away?

Well, there are a lot of ways you can do this. But in the end 3 options tend to be the most used...
A. NAP the family
B. Raid the enemy family and force them to give up that area or they get raided again. (please keep in mind that it can happen to you just as easy as you do to them)
C. Jump a wizzer or sabber and knock any portals they have in the "middle" ground. Whatever is in between the systems you want and their main core...take it out. If that doesn't keep them back, take out the ones in their core. Make them defend THEIR turf while you start portaling up yours.

5. Activity check and NW check before and during a war

Activity is one of those things that can be tricky to gauge. Knowing your enemy attackers time zones tends to be one of the ways you can make assumptions towards when they will be active. But to be honest, thinking that an attacker will be sleeping just because it is his nighttime proves to be a big mistake a lot of the time. What you need to do is get into chat and talk to people...find out what that person does for a living, if he goes to school, if he likes to party or play sports or whatever it is. Getting to know your enemy is one key to defeating them. So get personal with your enemies wink You can also send them msg's throughout different times of the day. When they msg you back gives you indicators of when they are online.

NW checks before and after are major players for calculating what sort of fleet someone is jumping. Do not worry so much about trying to calculate an attackers fleet by his NW jump...leave that to Infils. But for bankers/ressers it is extremely useful. Make a copy of each person's NW and get infils on them. You can immediately make an assumption of how much fleet they have off the infil and their NW and then if it goes up you will know by how much. Saves having to do infils later on if you want to raid. You should update their NW any time you see a significant change (200k nw on a player is significant) or every 6hrs.

If you have questions or stuff to ask...please do!

Solis - #7872

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

if im fairly positive that my enemy has lets say 300k ground, ill always send enough to beat at least 500-600k just in case he rebuilds, its nothing worse than landing and finding out the guy has rebuilt 150k only and your gonna fail cause of it. Plan to be safe rather than sorry!

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

Or plan to hit all same tick....

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

nice post Hydro

~*✠ ]PW[ Forever ✠*~

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

Make sure to raze portal on anti raid planets!

Nice strat hydro. U really r bored in africa!

"A choice from the gods, is as useless as the gods themselves"

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

In addition to the NW/Fleet checking strategy. If you want a very close estimate of their fleets then you can use this method to figure it out. It also helps when finding out if someone DOES have a Anti-Raid planet wink (as tested on Hellz)

Take a Pop banker (so we can play with the pop)
He is:
12mil nw
180 mil pop
280 planets

1. Planet NW

Ok, this is easy...multiply 800x280 (pcount) and you get 224k NW

2. Pop NW

Again, this is simple take .025x180,000,000 (his total pop) and you get 4.5mil NW

3. Infra NW

Ok, so there are two ways you can figure this out...seeing as he is a pop banker I will show you the easiest way with him and then the other method you would use on a cf banker or resser.

A. Take his pop (180 mil) and divide it by 650 (pop per LQ) and you will get right at 277k LQ's. Obviously he is going to have science that will help his pop be where it is but it is unlikely that his pop is just sitting there either so we can make the assumption that 277k is very close. Now, every banker is going to use TO's and we can make the assumption he is running a 75/25 ratio so now we just figure out how many TO's he has. 277k TO's makes for around 90k TO's roughly...so now you have his infra count at almost 1.5mil NW.

B. The other method for this is to attack 2-3 planets and see what his OB on them are. If you are finding his OB to be 500% then you can make the assumption that on 280 planets at an avg size of 220 (what i calculate) he will have 370k infra. (if you notice the math above...it pretty much matches from the other method) Obviously if you hit some of his empty planets or ones he has not raised the OB up yet on then your math could be wrong wink use your intuition on some of this.

4. Science NW

For this, just get a Vision or Spy on Target and find out what his %'s are. Once you have those, plug them into the tools in this forum or if you know how to do that math you can figure out how many points it would require him to have at his current NW to have those %'s. The math for NW is RPx0.001

For this part I am going make the assumption that he has 30% of Welfare and Eco. at 12million NW it is going to take him roughly 1billion RP points (if my math is wrong too bad cause I dont feel like doing the calculating right now) which makes it 0.001x1,000,000,000 making 1mil NW

5. Op Defense

This is going to be a little bit harder to do that math on so you are just going to have to make some assumptions here. We know at this point he has 7,224,000 NW so we are working with 4,776,000 NW to make up for. Lets just assume that he will use a 10% rule for op defense thus giving him 1.2mil wizzies and 400k agents (lets just assume he wants a 3-4% defense of agents).

So now we have 1.6mil NW from that.

6. Fleet defense

Ok, so we are down to what we want to figure out now...how to raid him! We have done the math and we are currently left with 3,176,000 NW. Making the assumption he has figs either for anti-raid defense or for retakes (or both) lets make the assumption he is going to have 100k figs and we know there is 300k NW gone for that leaving 2,876,000 NW left. At this point you can just take that number for what it is and assume he has 2.9mil ground or you can tally the math from having attacked a planet of his and see if it agrees. The one thing you can be sure of is that the number will be close to correct. So if you hit and the math you are getting is 2million ground...then assume he has 800k-900k ground as an Anti-Raid planet.

Any questions to add or ideas to add to this...be my guest!

Solis - #7872

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

What is the ratio to max ground assuming no mil bonus and no fear? Because wouldn't maxing each time be more efficient cause you halve the enemy's ground each 4 times you max basically.

Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does. --Sartre

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

Yes maxing is ideal when you can actually do it. But in a lot of raids you will likely not have enough fleet to max someone every time you hit them and get their ground down enough so the next person can take over. For the most part the main attackers job is just to hit where he kills enough groun each time that he can drop the enemies fleets down to a certain number where the #2 guy takes over.

The #2 guy will start getting max kills somewhere around the 60k mark if this is done properly.

I am currently working on a chart that will show you what is needed for max kills at each particular # of ground units and calculating what is needed for someone with 50% atk bonus. With that I will be able to make adjustments and give the numbers of what is needed for an attack with NO bonus.

So please give me a lil time and I will have that up for everyone.

Solis - #7872

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

> The Riddler wrote:

> Yes maxing is ideal when you can actually do it. But in a lot of raids you will likely not have enough fleet to max someone every time you hit them and get their ground down enough so the next person can take over. For the most part the main attackers job is just to hit where he kills enough groun each time that he can drop the enemies fleets down to a certain number where the #2 guy takes over.

The #2 guy will start getting max kills somewhere around the 60k mark if this is done properly.

I am currently working on a chart that will show you what is needed for max kills at each particular # of ground units and calculating what is needed for someone with 50% atk bonus. With that I will be able to make adjustments and give the numbers of what is needed for an attack with NO bonus.

So please give me a lil time and I will have that up for everyone.

Yes I understand what you are saying but what if not maxing actually takes more droids? I don't know the specific numbers but say your opponent is a banker with 1 mil solds and you send lets say 2 mil droids. You kill 150k where as if you send say 1 mil droids, you only kill around 70k ground. Clearly, in this case then it would be better to max then send smaller fleets that killed less for the same number of droids. I guess I'm curious about whether there is an 'ideal' number to hit. If max'ing is actually more efficient per number of droids you send or rather, your method of just killing double what you lose.

Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does. --Sartre

15 (edited by The Riddler 02-May-2012 17:30:10)

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

Yup I will do the math for ya and let you know. If my thinking is correct though, to gain a kill ratio of 2-1 requires significantly less ground than it takes to max.

To try and make my point clearer...if it takes 1.5mil droids to get a 2-1 ratio (say 50k lost 100k killed) but it takes 2.5mil to get a max kill (150k). then the obvious answer is going to be putting out more attacks starting at 1.5mil and dropping to keep that ratio.

But I will run the numbers and let everyone know.

Solis - #7872

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

Ok, so after some testing, ideally you want to send 2.5x what the enemy banker has to max him with each hit. If you have the ground for it maxing is the most ideal route to go as it will require less hits and obviously kill the most.

so if he has 10k ground, you send 25k to max kill him.

(the testing was done at a base 50%mil bonus) so keep that in mind you will have to send more than that if you dont have that mil bonus.

Solis - #7872

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

At 50%, it's possible that its just a bit less than that. The number is somewhere around 22.5k to max a banker with 10k ground. But it's close, so better to be safe than sorry.

Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does. --Sartre

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

to make max damages I used to send 2 times more droids than defending soldiers, when they were 5/5, now they are 5/6 but it was not perfect calculation...2 times was easy to calculate it

'Success! The realm of Genesis has been reduced to dust! Our forces are leaving the planet though, as it is scheduled for demolition to make way for a new hyperspace bypass.'

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

When Purin said it takes around 22.5k he was correct. But also like he says, it is better to be safe than sorry because you can expect your numbers never to be exact.

Also, 2.5x is not exactly difficult to calculate Kollop. And we tested it a few hours ago with 20k vs 10k and it just barely did not max him. So 22.5k would be right about the number.

Solis - #7872

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

well, when i used to attack it was 5/5, to make a raid I was sending for a 200k fleet defending 400k, then 340k, then 289k etc...each one was making max damages. now you may need more, since soldiers def went from 5 to 6, but it was not perfect calculation but only an easy way to make raids (2 for 1 then u remove 15%). Anyway that was for me, having each round same military bonus more or less for same nw. Now with new science planets my attackers tell me that they have incredible military bonuses compared to their nw. So the 2vs1 may still work...I can't say atm...

'Success! The realm of Genesis has been reduced to dust! Our forces are leaving the planet though, as it is scheduled for demolition to make way for a new hyperspace bypass.'

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

I can tongue I did it with 46% mil when i made my attack at 2-1 and did not max hit them. Obviously if you have over 50% it will likely max them. But with 50% 2-1 will not max (just barely). And taking into account that your numbers could be slightly off as to how much they have or they build a little more you are def safer to run a 2.5-1

Solis - #7872

Re: Advanced Attacker strategies

This is  really impressive strategy! More of a contribution than half the people with tag points!

Tag point him!!

"A choice from the gods, is as useless as the gods themselves"