Re: buying the votes of entire generations

I figure the reason why western societies, as opposed to Arab societies, continue to put up with the changes we are experiencing is because the baby boomer vote in western societies has been essentially bought by the niceties afforded them, while in Arab societies, the young population is much larger per capita, and, moreover, the elder generations there do not have afforded them the same niceties: suburban lifestyles, stable jobs, no major wars to have to go and fight and die for, etc..  And now, because in western countries the baby boomers have the majority vote, the corporations and colluding governments need only cajole and terrorize them.  Cajole them with easing their fears about the need to conserve their pension wealth from big bad government vis as vis conservative economic policies, which, ultimately, allow for corporations walk away with the moolla, leaving government struggling in debt trying to maintain the extent of social services those of the next generation naturally expect lest they revolt and cause civil unrest.

It is really sad to see: the baby boomers think they are reaping all the rewards of conservative policies as they stand by and watch their children while they suffer from chronic joblessness, underemployment, diminished standards of living, useless dollars and years spent in higher education, fighting perpetual wars and civil unrest, worse social services, etc., etc., yadda, yadda, when it is really the trans-national corporations reaping the majority of the rewards.

Thoughts?

Re: buying the votes of entire generations

The baby boomer agenda (preserve social security, expanded health programs) is conservative?

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: buying the votes of entire generations

"Cajole them with easing their fears about the need to conserve their pension wealth from big bad government"

Well, they do. Have you ever saved for retirement? You do realize they have to save more, the more is taxed? It's basic math.

"vis as vis conservative economic policies, which, ultimately, allow for corporations walk away with the moolla,"

Conservative vs liberal makes no difference in this regard. It's irrelevant. Conservatives and liberals in Amerika today are by and large crooks.

"leaving government struggling in debt trying to maintain the extent of social services those of the next generation naturally expect lest they revolt and cause civil unrest."

Leaving government struggling? What are you talking about? And how does a generation "naturally expect" to go massively into debt? How is unsustainable activity a natural expectation?

In short, what the hell are you talking about? Are you high?

A lot of these idiot kids voted for big government that stifles and restricts our economy. Generation warfare fail?

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: buying the votes of entire generations

"The baby boomer agenda (preserve social security, expanded health programs) is conservative?"

Their agenda is conservative on taxes, yet liberal in social services.

Re: buying the votes of entire generations

"You do realize they have to save more, the more is taxed? It's basic math."

Retirement wealth is tax-sheltered until retirement, when it withdrawn when they are in lowest possible income tax brackets.  Forget about the baby boomers paying much taxes after retirement...

Re: buying the votes of entire generations

"Conservative vs liberal makes no difference in this regard"

On that, you might be right, Kemp.  Although conservative fiscal theory vs liberal fiscal theory differs, in practice, you're right that there really isn't much difference between them anymore.

7 (edited by xeno syndicated 27-Apr-2012 09:01:17)

Re: buying the votes of entire generations

Leaving government struggling? What are you talking about?

This is how they are struggling:

Kemp - government in and of itself is not evil.  Government is just a bunch of people - a lot of them want to do the right thing.  They are struggling in that they can't do the right thing, which is to pay down the debt, keep inflation in check, raise the standard of living of the middle class, solve poverty, etc..  There are many people in government who want to, and may even think government could easily take the appropriate courses of action to do so, but if the upper echelons tell them otherwise, they can't do anything, because their job requires them to obey the upper echelons without question; to TRUST blindly the upper echelons to tell them what the public's best interest is, even when it seems it is against the public's best interests.

It's much the same within a corporation.  Corporate employees trust the CEO of a corporation and the corporate system itself to function in the bets interests of the shareholders, even if what the corporation is doing what seems to be the contrary, like killing millions with its product and successfully covering up the issue rather than innovating the product so it doesn't kill people.  The factory assembler may even know that the product kills and how to easily innovate it, but will keep his mouth shut, keep doing his job, knowing that even if he were to quit they'd just find someone to replace him.  It is the same with the CEO: Even if he or she were to know what was going on and how to solve the problem, he or she wouldn't be ABLE to do anything if the shareholders and the board disagreed.  Likewise if he or she were to quit, the shareholders would just find some other CEO to do the job.

Now we come to the crux of the issue:

"And how does a generation "naturally expect" to go massively into debt? How is unsustainable activity a natural expectation?"

Like government and corporations, the public placed their trusted (and for the most part still places their trust) in their respective upper echelons: they trusted government to act in the best interests of the public; and believed that for some reason, passing on such massive debt and social problems to future generations was somehow in the best interest of both the public of today and tomorrow. 

My concern is whether the baby boomer generation really believes that governments are also balancing the best interest of the public of tomorrow with the interests of he public of today: do they really concern themselves with their children's or children's children's generations' best interests? I also doubt whether governments and the baby-boomers care about the best interest of the public of future generations.

Because, ultimately, part of the problem is that generations (regardless of which generation it is) and the governments those generations elect are inherently self-serving, short-sighted, and tend to care first and foremost about their own generation's public's best interests.

Re: buying the votes of entire generations

http://xkcd.com/988/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=k3Ue_Dj2GXk#t=46s

Damn baby boomers.

Re: buying the votes of entire generations

"Retirement wealth is tax-sheltered until retirement, when it withdrawn when they are in lowest possible income tax brackets.  Forget about the baby boomers paying much taxes after retirement..."

You're railing against... People acting responsibly and taking care of themselves? You're upset that... they aren't wasting enough money in bloated, inefficient, corrupt government programs designed to give you handouts? Cry me a river.

"Kemp - government in and of itself is not evil."

It gives men power over men. It's a corrupting influence. It's a necessary evil.

And then you go on to generalize about people wanting to do the right thing. Blah blah blah blah. You're just going to think what you just made up is ridiculous in a few years. You have no basis for your lofty generalizations. You haven't studied history and cultural phenomena, let alone for decades to observe your own culture shift over time. Maybe more time learning, less time pretending, would do you some good.

"and believed that for some reason, passing on such massive debt and social problems to future generations was somehow in the best interest of both the public of today and tomorrow."

No, they didn't believe any such thing. They weren't THAT stupid. They just figured it'd be easier to pass the buck along, and they had the power to do so. So they did. Pretending they consulted a mystic and believed magically that being irresponsible was best for everybody is just dumb.

"My concern is whether the baby boomer generation really believes that governments are also balancing the best interest of the public of tomorrow with the interests of he public of today: do they really concern themselves with their children's or children's children's generations' best interests?"

Obviously not. You understand that our debt is 15.5 trillion. Maybe this will help. $15,500,000,000,000. It's hard to comprehend. Keep working at it. It'll sink in.

"I also doubt whether governments and the baby-boomers care about the best interest of the public of future generations."

Really? You're open to debate over whether they've been wise and responsible? You don't think this issue has been settled?

What you're missing is that what they're doing isn't sustainable. They can't keep hurting future generations as they have been. The credit supply will run out in a relatively short time. The consequences of a sudden loss of the ability to keep spending will be devastating. (Printing money isn't a solution--It might be briefly, but then has its own devastating consequences.) It won't just hurt future generations. It'll hurt everybody alive.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: buying the votes of entire generations

With social security, you get back less than you pay in to it. I would rather spend my money on purchasing assets than on that pyramid scam.

Re: buying the votes of entire generations

You won't just get back less than you payed in. When it collapses, you'll get back nothing! woohoo!

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: buying the votes of entire generations

Which changes are we experiencing, exactly?

Je maintiendrai

Re: buying the votes of entire generations

> BiefstukFriet wrote:

> Which changes are we experiencing, exactly?

Where to start?  No one can predict the future 100%.  Let's just say, though, that what seems to be happening now is increased civil disaffection and political unrest; increased tensions between nation states; increased gaps between rich and poor, and some serious anti-establishment sentiment, less regard for the rule of law, diminished confidence in leaders. 

Maybe the general sentiment out there currently could be described with the following: hopelessness, apathy, fear, disenfranchisement, resentment, anger, all sorts of irony, contempt, detachment, escapism, despair, dread, shock, patience, some resolve, but, mostly, just pessimistic resignation.