1 (edited by Kollop 30-Apr-2012 02:50:14)

Re: Even up fams

The more i play this game the more i realise that there is a massive disparity between families every round. This always seems to go down due to activity but i do not believe it purely activity.. There are massively limiting factors between a family with many members vs a family with few members.

The problems have always been here but its only now, when families are NOT filling up, that we are really noticing these problems. We need to fix the limitations to small member fams, so that even families with less members can actively compete with the top few...

This fixes many of the games current problems such as:
Inactivity - by making small families fun to play
Game appeal - New players can now compete with the bigger fams, less farming, more active players..
Farming - Fams are now more even so less farming.
Fun - Now everyone can have fun - not just the pwning few...

The following is a collective of ideas that i believe are needed.

1.) The explo limit.

Background:
The limit is currently 8 per player...

Change:
Change the limit to incorporate family size. So a 10 man fam in a 10 man max gal would get 8 per day each. And a 5 man fam in a 10 man max gal would be allowed 16 each. Both families get 80 expos per day. So planet growth would now be even. The obvious problem is when a guy joins your fam he takes up 8 expos/day slot, and it takes time to kill inactives. Even so this would not be too often a problem and the advantage of it is still worth it.


2.) Entry To Galaxy

Background:
At start of the round players random and then delete/re-random to get in the big families. This creates a pretty big difference between how many active and good players each fam gets..

Change:
Change the way we start each round. Each round has three start stages. First the round will open for entry and players sign up to  play that gal in the same way they do now. However, rather than land a fam, they get entered onto a list. Once the entry time is up, the list will randomly allocate players into families. This means that family size will be determined purely on how many players sign up, rather than a set variable which we have to hope we reach.
Example:
Round announced as open on 'Announcements' thread. It will have round details and also a date that signups end, with the round start coming two days after that. You go to sign up in the same way you would now. Once the entry time finishes, players will be allocated their fam and be able to go to that account and play. All fams would have even numbers of members, sometimes with one or more families having at most 1 more player than others.

Max fam size for entries after the round has begun will be set by the formula:
Highest number of members in fam at time of allocation * Number of families.

2.b) Disable delete at bor.

As an addition to the above, your delete should be disabled until 48 hours into the round. This means fams are set at bor, no players trying to land with better players. Its all evens.



3.a) Empire large size costs

Change:
This should be family large size costs. Your large size costs should be calculated by family size not player size. Otherwise a fam with 5 players trying to compete vs 10 will have much larger costs with the same number of planets.


3.b) Exploration costs

Change:
This should be calculated by number of planets in family, not by number of planets you own. This punishes families with less players.


4.) Morale

Background: Morale loss counted per player

Another major loss for smaller member families vs bigger member families is the morale loss. Generally speaking, morale loss will be higher as you have a higher planets to player ratio - that shouldnt matter enough for us to need to fix though as most attackers will have small planet count.
The main problem is that the smaller member fam will have less active attackers. 2attackers vs 4attackers = 220 morale vs 440... The bigger fam can do double the amount of attacks as the small fam. This is a major loss!
Albeit, less attackers means bigger fleets on those attackers, generally speaking most fams only have one main attacker to break people and other smaller guys to use thier morale to take planets.. Therefore the benefit of bigger fleet is short lived as you have so little morale in comparison.
I believe the fix for this is to change the way morale max is calculated to incorporate number of family members, so that 6 attackers in 10 man fam have 660. Where as 3 attackers in 5 man fam would have 495(currently 330). Thats 50% more morale for the less attackers.






The overall reason there is such disparity between families is because there were rules brought in to punish big players to try and make fams more even and all its done is punish smaller member fams, not big players.

These changes dont overhaul the game so much as to put everyone on a level playing field, it in no way disadvantages the top fams, it just no longer disadvantages the smaller ones..


Hope a developer or two has the time to take a look at this and maybe take some ideas on board.

Edit: 1 TAG POINT, good thread

- HUMI FOR MOD!!!

Re: Even up fams

3a+b been said very often throughout the forums.
mods consider it a tax on the rich. and hence r against it.

Colorado: even in the 11/01 war i made more hits.
Colorado: 447 blow jobs.
Big Gary:  Only a fool cannot admit when he's wrong...
AW:    i love rim jobs
RisingDown: I know you do

Re: Even up fams

Fine then, don't do it where it "taxes the rich" (What are we the United States Government?)

Make 1 round (JUST ONE TO SEE HOW IT GOES) Where, when you random into a fam at BOR, thats where you are for that round. It isn't taxing the rich, it isn't hurting the poor per say. What you are doing is actually having the players who are bigger and better every round play in a fam that might not have all of those players together. Hence teaching the weaker and worse off players how to play better. Rather than new players or worse of players playing against the Veterans. (This isn't that show Joes vs Pros is it) We need to figure out a way to make this game a little more even for everyone, otherwise, there will be no game for us to play.

Read-Learn-Win
First and Foremost.... DON'T trust them!
Second, rip out their hearts.
Third, saute said heart in butter, with a tad of cream and mushrooms with a tad of celery and onion.
Fourth, serve with white wine.

Re: Even up fams

This round Milkyway was pretty much filled. All families had 11 or more members.

Re: Even up fams

even so, u need to give every group of people the same ammount of resources/exploration ships a day to give them a equal shot at winning the round.

It shouldnt matter if u were with just 10 or 12 people in the fam, u should have both equal as much to grow, equally fast.
so a 10 man fam can normally build 80 e-ships a day now it would be 96. just as manny as the other 12 man fam would be doing. (same wil have to apply on the starting resources!) and with rules 3a and 3b in mind, this would be the fairest way to go for everyone.

this wil result in far more competition cuz less fortunate famsizes can stil grow just as good as big ones if they got someone stepping up co-ordinating the fams eco.
in the end its all about who does the eco the best, and it wil not only apply to full fams.

Starting in PW with 2 inactives, some fams even had 3 or more. it kills their round on having a fair shot at victory.
this needs to change. + 3a and 3b would make imperial conflict competative again and eventually be more liked by the masses.

Colorado: even in the 11/01 war i made more hits.
Colorado: 447 blow jobs.
Big Gary:  Only a fool cannot admit when he's wrong...
AW:    i love rim jobs
RisingDown: I know you do

Re: Even up fams

Pretty much summed it up paininside... This needs to be seriously thought about...
I.c implemented ideas to increase competition but they don't it wrong.. they disadvantage small player fams massively!

- HUMI FOR MOD!!!

Re: Even up fams

Also.. I never even thought of starting rez... That could indeed be split.. but thing is, at bor... Most gals are full, it's only 48+ ticks into round when you can kill off noobs that you can see how many players playing active there are...

So as an additional idea, when you kill off an inactive, 60% of his on hand resources go to the leader....

- HUMI FOR MOD!!!

Re: Even up fams

Well the splitting of the family resources could easily work with a family bank. The starting resources start in a family bank, and then VL's and anyone with a tag can withdraw resources...

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: Even up fams

Lots of room for abuse there though wurnstrum.. You have access to 100k cash, do you keep it to yourself or split with some semi-active noob?

Starting rez should stay as it is imo.. Just allow pillaging of resources when you kill off someone...

- HUMI FOR MOD!!!

10 (edited by Paininside 05-Apr-2012 23:16:38)

Re: Even up fams

semi active noobs wil have to wait humidity, its the eco leader of the fam who decides what is best for the fams growth at bor.
i keep inactives empty or just fb as long as possible when i got space to grow on others instaid, its just normal in my eyes.

having inactives in the fam with them not spending or sending the start resources wil get you just as far as you can now. no where.
throw it in the bank, allow the eco dudes of the famely to spend it to gain max growth!

edit [in the end this is a team based game, force em to work together benifits the fam in the end]

Colorado: even in the 11/01 war i made more hits.
Colorado: 447 blow jobs.
Big Gary:  Only a fool cannot admit when he's wrong...
AW:    i love rim jobs
RisingDown: I know you do

Re: Even up fams

Nah not fair on less active newbies. Discourages them from playing... Leave stating rez

- HUMI FOR MOD!!!

Re: Even up fams

I agree with your morale Idea.  Exactly what i'm getting at with my post.

Victory Is Mine!

Re: Even up fams

I still don't know why this hasn't even been considered by developers yet....

- HUMI FOR MOD!!!

Re: Even up fams

It should be A, B, or both: either they A) keep the fams even, or B) they provide some sort of advantage to smaller fams, or they could do both: take measures to keep fams more or less even in number of players and at the same time implement more measures to give smaller fams a better fighting chance.

Perhaps make the cost to build expos determined by average NW and planet count per capita of the fam instead of player networth / planet count.  Get them to auto build, with funds deducted from the fam's defense station fund (maybe rename the fund fam projects fund).  The explos will be allocated to fam members' inventories automatically.  Cost to send expo will still be determined by player NW / planet count.

Re: Even up fams

humiditys system is well laid out. it would be about as fair as you can make it. though people are scared to play on fair terms

Re: Even up fams

I think thats too big of a change to the current system xeno, like the ideas i suggest would not take very long at all to implement, save for the round start idea.. The rest could be implemented pretty easy and quick... And it would completely rejuvinate the game and level the playing field...

- HUMI FOR MOD!!!

Re: Even up fams

why would xeno's idea be hard to implement?

Colorado: even in the 11/01 war i made more hits.
Colorado: 447 blow jobs.
Big Gary:  Only a fool cannot admit when he's wrong...
AW:    i love rim jobs
RisingDown: I know you do

Re: Even up fams

Perhaps not too much coding. But its a complete overhaul of the current system... One that I don't think is guy broken.. I just think it needs tweaking not an overhaul....

- HUMI FOR MOD!!!

Re: Even up fams

guy broken? i meant just broken..

oh look i accidently bumped..

get this looked at modulars and developoraters pleazz

- HUMI FOR MOD!!!

Re: Even up fams

I had not seen this thread yet (a bit busy last month), but there are some good ideas for sure. I will give some more detailed feedback later! smile

ps. I am not sure where this "rich tax" comes from. All ideas have two sides to it and that's also what makes it difficult. You could say that things such as 'Empire large size costs' are there to stimulate more sharing of planets and infra in your fam. Or that in combination with OB that it stimulates families to war more to get more planets, etc.

This in general, not related to your idea btw. Just want to point out that things are never plain or anything =p

Elrohir
"Abstract art is the product of the untalented, sold by the unprincipled to the utterly bewildered.."

21 (edited by Humidity 01-May-2012 19:05:05)

Re: Even up fams

Yaaayyy a developer replied big_smile

" Or that in combination with OB that it stimulates families to war more to get more planets"
changing it to tax the family as a whole would still achieve the same thing here... as families would want more planets for less ob and overall costs smile


Also - the sharing of planets hmm.. Never considered that, but realistically, a family would still probably want to split the planets up.. I'ts alot easier raiding one guy, than many...


But yeah - please take some/all of these ideas into consideration, i just want a bit of a more even playing field.. smile

- HUMI FOR MOD!!!

Re: Even up fams

"Yaaayyy a developer replied big_smile"

Woot~!!

IC is looking up.

Re: Even up fams

this may get complex but there would need to be a player OB tax and a family OB tax

Re: Even up fams

This is ridiculous.  Look how Pinwheel is shaping up:

Rank       Family       Planets       Networth       Score
1     (6339) [24,38]     8     8800     0
2     The Aces (6336) [11,15]     7     7700     0
3     (6337) [52,16]     6     6600     0
4     Working on it!!!!!!!!! (6338) [2,57]     5     5500     0
5     (6340) [71,33]     5     5500     0
6     Resistance (6347) [26,55]     5     5500     0
7     (6348) [7,39]     5     5500     0
8     (6343) [52,75]     5     5500     0
9     Infinity (6346) [63,54]     5     5500     0
10     (6335) [44,56]     5     5500     0
11     (6344) [32,14]     5     5500     0
12     (6342) [72,79]     5     5500     0
13     (6341) [25,73]     4     4400     0
14     (6345) [45,35]     2     2200     0

One fam has 2 players and another has 8?

Seriously?

EVEN UP FAMS

Re: Even up fams

Honestly, when I see this, I just want to delete and leave IC for good.