Re: How to Fix the US Economy

1. Privatize Social Security, and cancel all government pension payments except to police and military.
2. Privatize Higher Education.
3. Base student financial aid on merit only.
4. Private Health Care.
5. Eliminate unemployment benefits.
6. Declare obesity as not a protected class.
7. Permit employers to hire/fire at will.
8. Eliminate the minimum wage.
9. Legalize "soft" drugs and prostitution to expand the number of taxable people.
10. Tax only wage and asset (not capital gains) income, and set taxes to 10-15% for all income above ~$10,000.
11. Undo the perverse incentives for banks to lend to risky demographics.
12. Cut the bank reserve rate to 5%.
13. Depreciate the dollar to increase exports.
14. Increase oil drilling.
15. End the war on terror, downsize the military to $400 billion, terminate our alliances with Europe, and return all troops stationed in Europe.

Then the economy would grow! Problems solved.

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

Im sorry but US imperialists would not allow this to happen!

LORD HELP OREGON

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

13. Currency manipulation? Not leaving it to the free market? I mean...we're headed that direction anyway.

3. What is merit? GPA? When you have a system where more money goes to those with higher GPA, you're calling for abuse. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_inflation

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ ☭ Fokker

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

Heh, your sad Justinian

1) drop 1/2 to 3/4 of regulations
2) Flat Tax or Fair Tax
3) No Capital Gains tax
4) 15% Corporate tax
5) Drill
6) Dump 3/4 to 7/8 of the Social Policies


You would see a Golden Age unparralled, with no Prostitution or drugs, no breaking alliances, and probably a 50% increase in military spending to boot.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

Justinian I, if you mess with the value of my dollars, I will hire a professional to END YOU!

What's sad is that many of these suggestions are no-brainers, but we have too many welfare queens (male, female, black, white, etc) to enact something with any common sense.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

How about this:

1. Public Social Security, and keep all government pension payments.  Scale-back the public service, including the military and the police.
2. Universal state funded public education up to the doctorate level; provide grants / tax credits to parents who home school their kids.
3. Base student pensions on merit and income: monthly pension to those students from low-income backgrounds who have merit.
4. Eliminate private health care and institute universal public health care system.
5. Increase unemployment benefits; provide housing, education, and a pension for those who wish to retrain in order to participate in the economy.
6. Declare the Transnational Corporate ELITE as not a protected class.
7. Permit employees to hire/fire their bosses at will; have unemployment benefits fund forced buyouts by employees who wish to do so. Allow for the immediate confiscation and liquidation of assets of those companies which by order of executives / board of directors / owners commit unethical and unlawful schemes / creates products which result in negative sociological effects on society.
8. Raise the minimum wage to a liveable wage, one that affords basic needs: one in which OWNERSHIP of land and housing WITHOUT A MORTGAGE is feasible with 1 year of saving.
9. Regulate and control drugs and prostitution so as to eliminate the criminal element in such "industries".
10. Tax only corporate profits, capital gains, property, and probate, and set income taxes to 0% for all income under ~$100,000.
11. Undo the banks' monopoly on currency and lending; tax the !@$@ out of them; use their office towers for public housing.  Allow for p2p credit system whereby anyone can lend anything to anyone at the interest rate they agree on.
12. Cut the banks' lending rates to 0% - that way they'll be out of business in less than a decade.
13. Float the dollar, along with every other currency, by allowing ANY currency a consumer wishes to conduct exchanges in to be valid.
14. Ban the combustion engine and force auto manufactures to build electric cars.
15. End the war on terror, downsize the military to $100 million, terminate our alliances with the transnational corporate elite.

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

How about everyone who's throwing out their generalized methods of fixing the economy actually justify their arguments and dispute other people's arguments, rather than just constructing giant economic wish lists?

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

> Zarf BeebleBrix wrote:

> How about everyone who's throwing out their generalized methods of fixing the economy actually justify their arguments and dispute other people's arguments, rather than just constructing giant economic wish lists?>

Can I quote from my Economics textbook?

9 (edited by xeno syndicated 15-Apr-2012 17:58:08)

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

> Zarf BeebleBrix wrote:

> How about everyone who's throwing out their generalized methods of fixing the economy actually justify their arguments and dispute other people's arguments, rather than just constructing giant economic wish lists?

"13. Float the dollar, along with every other currency, by allowing ANY currency a consumer wishes to conduct exchanges in to be valid."

This one I think is the easiest one to start with.  Let's say I go to a local fast food joint to get a burger, intending to pay with either Zimbabwean franks OR perhaps concentrated orange juice futures credits because the price of both of these is high, and I hold a significant number of each that I bought a year earlier at far lower rates.  It's in my interest to use either of those "currencies".  I ask the cashier, do you accept exchanges via the TEP2P net?  She politely says, "Sorry, we're not set up with that system yet."  I walk across the street and go to a different burger joint which IS set up for the payment system I want to use.

"Allow for p2p credit system whereby anyone can lend anything to anyone at the interest rate they agree on."

This system would dismantle the oppressive, exploitative, archaic financial system we have now, and would empower the consumer, raising THE MIDDLE CLASS to prominence in our societies.

Additionally, the US would lose its monopoly on the use of its currency for international trade, and so you'll get the collapse - err I mean diminished value of the US currency that it needs in order to be competitive in exports once again.

10 (edited by V.Kemp 15-Apr-2012 21:37:30)

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

xeno syndicated is arguing for a state like North Korea. That's not a "fix" buddy, that's promising everything to everybody and ending up with starvation and poverty because you can't even make enough food to go around, let alone education and healthcare.

Thank you for openly stating your communist beliefs. It was awkward seeing you post them repeatedly while denying that the term applied to you. Here, at last, an open admission that you advocate tyranny and slavery, and that you hate free markets and free people.

"This one I think is the easiest one to start with.  Let's say I go to a local fast food joint to get a burger, intending to pay with either Zimbabwean franks OR perhaps concentrated orange juice futures credits...."

hahhahahahahhahahahhahaha! Oh my god. Funniest trolling ever. I can hardly respond because I can't stop laughing. What about the fact that the burger shack employees don't know anything about the value of Zimbabwean (HAHAHHAHAHA you must have NO idea what's happened to their currency!) currency or concentrated orange juice futures markets? It'd be economic chaos. Nobody would be dumb enough to use such a system. The valuations of all of these assets would be constantly in flux, ruining people's fortunes at the ebb and flow of the market. Nobody can keep up with all developments in all industries in a real-time basis, so your proposals would beg for rampant abuse across all sectors at all times, as everyone with inside info ditched assets about to fall in value and gobbled up assets about to rise in value. You're proposing insider-trading be increased exponentially, risking harm not only to markets and investors but ALL members of society. That sounds just.

I'd respond to your other 14 "points," but the trolling is too obvious at this point to continue my exercises in patience at this time.

Troll better plz. You're being lazy.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

Counterargument, Kemp (This is Devil's Advocate time for me... I just wanna see this particular debate fleshed out a bit): Would currency fluctuations exist in a world where all currencies are perfectly interchangeable?


Okay, assume that in every country in the world, I can use whatever currency I want to purchase goods and services I want.  Therefore, supply and demand for currency would not be tied to a nation's production and consumption of goods and services, because there would be no reason I would need to use dollars to buy US goods.

So if currency values would no longer be based on a nation's total consumption and production of goods and services, where would the fluctuations occur that you're talking about?  The currency market may theoretically become perfectly elastic, in that if a government attempts to devalue its currency by printing more currency beyond the normal societal inflationary needs, the credibility of that currency as a medium of exchange would decline, in effect degrading that currency's credibility as a tool of international exchange.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

12 (edited by V.Kemp 15-Apr-2012 22:01:49)

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

This topic is obviously not a strong suit for me. tongue Though I can trade stocks and options on my smartphone (I usually use my computer. 24" widescreen is much easier to view!), that's mostly based on data analysis. I obviously don't day-trade in currencies. Or in currencies at all. tongue Unfortunately there don't seem to be more knowledgeable people available, so I'll go ahead and embarrass myself. I can't do worse than the troll. big_smile

"Would currency fluctuations exist in a world where all currencies are perfectly interchangeable?"

The point I would have been more clear on, if the trolling wasn't really stupid, was that there are reasons we use currencies. There are a limited number of currencies and the governments responsible for their printing can protect their values (or not). Compared to using ANY and ALL assets as currencies, traditional currencies are ridiculously stable. The point is that using all assets as currencies would harm people not choosing to engage in the market and subject them to market forces. Currencies are relatively stable (more stable if the people elect representatives who protect them) and do not subject people's well-being to these forces. What was proposed would harm the crap out of people.

"So if currency values would no longer be based on a nation's total consumption and production of goods and services...."

This isn't the sole source of currency values at present--which finally answers your previous question. Currency markets are already elastic to a great extent now; they're pretty damn exchangeable. Fluctuations will always exist because governments will always steal from their people/holders of their currencies and print more money to pay for their massive deficits.

I won't debate "normal societal inflationary needs." tongue

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

> V.Kemp wrote:

> "So if currency values would no longer be based on a nation's total consumption and production of goods and services...."

This isn't the sole source of currency values at present. Currency markets are already elastic to a great extent now; they're pretty damn exchangeable. tongue I won't debate "normal societal inflationary needs" here. tongue



Okay... what other sources of value are derived from one currency relative to another currency (not of currency in general...).  As of now, and within the content I stated earlier, I note two sources of currency value:

1: Value derived from the need to use a specific currency in a specific transaction.  This would obviously be a non-issue in the ideal world of xeno.
2: Value derived from the credibility of the currency as a store of value/medium of exchange.  For example, if Zimbabwe went into a hyperinflationary period right now from turbo-printing currency, a seller in the US who was going to accept Zimbabwe currency would either put a premium on the currency (in effect creating even more inflation in that currency), or outright refuse to accept the currency.


Where else would the value be derived?

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

14 (edited by V.Kemp 15-Apr-2012 22:30:09)

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

Government printing money. Like Zimbabwe. Like Germany. Like Amerika today.

When you mention Zimbabwe, remember that currency valuations are always a process. Many sellers in the US would be hurt accepting Zimbabwe currency before the downward cycle was obvious. Buyers would similarly be hurt, unknowingly buying with a currency about to increase in value. An obvious measure would be to only deal in certain currencies: But this completely obliterates the troll's suggestion.

I'm not inherently against private currencies. But what the troll suggested is ludicrous and would either result in chaos, or nobody would take part and it wouldn't result at all. He obviously advocates government force demanding all sellers accept all currencies, so he'd choose absolute chaos and harm.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

> V.Kemp wrote:

> Government printing money. Like Zimbabwe. Like Germany. Like Amerika today.


That is the credibility issue.  I already talked about it.  Anything else?




> When you mention Zimbabwe, remember that currency valuations are always a process. Many sellers in the US would be hurt accepting Zimbabwe currency before the downward cycle was obvious. Buyers would similarly be hurt, unknowingly buying with a currency about to increase in value. An obvious measure would be to only deal in certain currencies: But this completely obliterates the troll's suggestion.



True enough.  Okay, so would it then be a fair middle ground to allow sellers to select the currencies they wish to use in transactions?  This is how I perceived his intent with that post (if I would rather use the Euro, I can accept Euros, but if I think Zimbabwe currency is crap, I can refuse it if I prefer).

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

When you buy things with your credit card, you have to pay that money back (obviously). You can then choose what currency you wish to pay the credit card.

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ ☭ Fokker

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

Macro events like the discovery/utilization of resources are less direct. I'm a noob on the subject. If you would like to introduce other mechanics than government printing, feel free. tongue

He argued that "ANY" currency a consumer wished be accepted. This is distinctly different from arguing that sellers should have the option of using private currencies, which I have not argued against.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

> V.Kemp wrote:

> Macro events like the discovery/utilization of resources are less direct. I'm a noob on the subject. If you would like to introduce other mechanics than government printing, feel free. tongue



That's the interesting thing.  Resource discoveries are only important if the currency is required to obtain the resources.  So if I must use dollars to obtain a particular newly discovered resource, the value of the dollar is going to increase due to demand for dollars.  But if there is no required currency to obtain that resource, there would be no net currency value effect.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

I guess? I'm a noob. That's why I just pointed to printing presses. tongue I figured other resource/market forces could influence it, but alas, I know only enough to know that what the troll suggested is insane. tongue

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

> Einstein wrote:

>and probably a 50% increase in military spending to boot.

This is not a positive thing...

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

I agree, it is an awesome sauce, yes oh my gawd that was an excellent orgasm, hey there is a silver lining here, did that goose drop a golden egg, holy crap I won all the lotteries of the world level thing.

aka... best idea ever!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

What was the mechanism by which there would be "no Prostitution or drugs," Einstein?

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

> Justinian I wrote:

> 1. Privatize Social Security, and cancel all government pension payments except to police and military.
2. Privatize Higher Education.
3. Base student financial aid on merit only.
4. Private Health Care.
5. Eliminate unemployment benefits.
6. Declare obesity as not a protected class.
7. Permit employers to hire/fire at will.
8. Eliminate the minimum wage.
9. Legalize "soft" drugs and prostitution to expand the number of taxable people.
10. Tax only wage and asset (not capital gains) income, and set taxes to 10-15% for all income above ~$10,000.
11. Undo the perverse incentives for banks to lend to risky demographics.
12. Cut the bank reserve rate to 5%.
13. Depreciate the dollar to increase exports.
14. Increase oil drilling.
15. End the war on terror, downsize the military to $400 billion, terminate our alliances with Europe, and return all troops stationed in Europe.

To add:

16. Ban all labor unions (that would spawn everywhere with your program without a ban).
17. Ban all strikes.
18. Allow the military to intervene in banned strikes.
19. Allow the miltary to shoot on illegal striker.
20. Ban all private weapons to prevent uprisings.
21. Ban maximum workday hours.
22. Ban safety at work.
23. Ban universel voting rights for a wealth system (income/year).

Re: How to Fix the US Economy

this is already the case, if he can find a buyer/seller to go along with it you can barter with anything you want. There are companies out there that offer barter units and such too

> xeno syndicated wrote:

> How about this:

13. Float the dollar, along with every other currency, by allowing ANY currency a consumer wishes to conduct exchanges in to be valid.

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Re: How to Fix the US Economy

Firewing, you're proposing that labor unions would "spawn everywhere" if... #7 & #8? Oh, I believe you.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]