Re: I like the Rich

This is a counterpoint argument to those wealth redistributors and those thinking we need to lessen the total wealth of the rich by other means.

Most of our current rich got there by earning it. While some are exceptions to the rule (John Kerry's wife Teresa Heinz) the vast majority of them went out and earned it.

Excepting Hollywood most of them earned it by providing jobs. While there are exceptions (stock market) businesses such as Apple employ tons of people providing what we desire.

Their life styles provide jobs as well... Butlers, Painters, Stone Masons, Drivers, Publicists, and so forth. Those jobs would not exist in a more 'equality' based environment.

Think of a mansion... it needs grounds keepers, maids, electricity, and more. They are paying for a decent number of people just for their upkeep.

The only problem is that we the lessers have decided to HELP the rich stay rich by taxing heavily. See if they have to compete to stay 'luxurious' then they will be even more efficient at providing us what we want.

Thus we need a flat tax to make it so anyone can become rich, so long as they try hard and do what the customer wants, and enjoy the comforts of being rich.

I know I want to be rich... and I will work on it in my way.


To those with envy problems... get off your duff and just try to compete!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: I like the Rich

Me too. They hire me, giving me a job. Then they go and buy things which I help produce, giving me job security and increased income!

Why should I care that they're rich? It's not my money. Retarded children need to stop speaking about what others have earned as if they're entitled to it.

Dear ignorant children with trouble reading: It's not my money. It's not your money. It's not my money. It's not your money. It's not my money. It's not your money. It's not my money. It's not your money. It's not my money. It's not your money.

Don't stop reading that until you stop feeling like other people OUGHT to be slaves, laboring to give you things regardless of what you do in return. If you want shit, go earn it. Rotten things go on: That's what the law is for. They didn't steal your money, so stop pretending you want it back. It's not your money. It never was. You never did anything to deserve it. You do not deserve it because you were born. It's not your money.




I'm really embarrassed by the jealous culture I find a large portion of America to be. The principles of freedom are simple. They do great things for all of us. Only ignorant, naive fools would attack freedom because of stupid, idealistic notions that we'd all have more stuff if we incentivized hard work and production less and just stole from the rich.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: I like the Rich

Ok, what do you mean by flat tax? (I think I have an understanding, but I do wanna make sure)

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

4 (edited by V.Kemp 30-Mar-2012 16:06:49)

Re: I like the Rich

Teresa Heinz's family (in-laws) earned the money she now has. Are you objecting to freedom here? People that earn money shouldn't be able to do with it what they please? The money she has was ill-begotten because it was inherited? When the person who earns money dies, their right to what they earned vanishes? Please elaborate your reasoning behind discriminating against inherited wealth as somehow not earned. Somebody earned it. And they're still owed its worth.

"While there are exceptions (stock market)"

These people provide capital which allow businesses to grow and expand, creating wealth, providing desired goods/services to customers, and jobs to employees. In the case of simply buying stock, those buying stock don't make a profit unless their investment results in more jobs, products/services, and/or production.

It's that simple. And it's not debatable. Why do you hate free markets so much? You've repeatedly demonized the stock market/free market, but I suspect you have no idea what you're talking about. You sound like a liberal blaming banks and Wall Street for the actions of politicians in DC; you sound like you're referencing a convenient scapegoat and hoping nobody who hears you is educated enough to call you on it. Nobody is forced to go public with their business. Nobody is forced to buy stocks or trade options. The free market--that stocks are sold--generates a lot of capital and allows for a lot of growth (jobs, expansion, development).

I think the freedom of business owners and investors is a good thing. I think the creation of jobs, expansion, and growth are good things. You obviously disagree, which I find puzzling.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: I like the Rich

I think the people aligned with unions, minimum wages, and unions are lunatics. However, the majority of today's super rich got there by bribery, rent-seeking, insider-trading, and taking advantage of laws that benefited them.

Finally, your flat tax idea is ludicrous. Ever hear of the concept of economies of scale?

Re: I like the Rich

I was not objecting to her money kemp, just pointing out facts.

In fact I am not objecting to any form of wealth generation, just pointing out facts.

I think your tired and/or drunk, thought you read it one way, and went on a blitz?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

7 (edited by V.Kemp 30-Mar-2012 16:26:02)

Re: I like the Rich

You object to people giving away money however they want? What was your point in pointing out inheritance as a way in which wealth is acquired w/o the wealthy person having earned it themself? What does who earned the wealth have to do with anything?

I could understand the relevance of pointing out if money was acquired through the commission of crimes, but why point out inheritance? Why does it matter to the topic if the money was earned by its current possessor or given to them by he who earned it? It's a fact that she did not, herself, earn the money from the general public. But why is that relevant to the topic?

I think you are tired and/or drunk, which caused you to reference her/inheritance without any clear reason why. Are you suggesting that the public does have the right to steal money from people if they inherited it, rather than personally earned it?

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: I like the Rich

Justinian you are the lunatic if you have issues with any of those things. And a flat tax rate is what there should be. People want equality yet they still want the rich to be taxed MORE than the people with less. How is this equality?

No, what you want is for the rich to get poorer and you to get richer.

Also, don't make stupid comments about the majority of rich people getting there through less than honorable means unless you have some sort of facts to prove it. Comments like that are juvenile.

Solis - #7872

Re: I like the Rich

^

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: I like the Rich

Kemp
Reread my posts here



Wornstrum
A flat tax is the same tax rate for all. It promotes growth, rewards innovators and people who please customers, and punishes the lazy rich because a competitor will grow and eat them.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

11 (edited by Justinian I 30-Mar-2012 18:11:23)

Re: I like the Rich

Riddler,

A free-market economy is not a zero-sum game, but I recognize it's in the interests of powerful businesses to bribe politicians to install barriers to entry. Even Flint implied that this was true in his OP. Yet you call my statements about rent-seeking juvenile? lolz.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2060738/Congress-getting-rich-trading-stocks-insider-information-Jailed-lobbyist-Jack-Abramoff-dishes-dirt-book-tour.html

Personally, I favor a negative income tax similar to the one once proposed by Milton Friedman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax

Re: I like the Rich

What you prefer is that people don't actually have to work to make a living and survive. What sort of man are you if you don't "sweat" to earn your keep?

And while you may think that all those rich people don't work hard for what they get you are dead wrong. How many times have people gotten rich and all the sudden ended up poor because they had no clue what they were doing when it came to money.

Don't tell me that rich people are bad, they are needed! And the idea of having an equal class without having equal tax rates is hypocrisy in and of itself.

Plus, if we don't have a class system, how then will I pay you to mow my lawn?

Solis - #7872

Re: I like the Rich

Mow your own lawn you lazy git!

Re: I like the Rich

Riddler,

Geeze, where to begin? I suggest you educate yourself in Economics. Milton Friedman is a good start. I also recommend you watch the one where he pwns Michael Moore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8Z__o52sk

Re: I like the Rich

Actually, I was going to ask where I begin with you. I happen to be educated in economics to a fair degree and everything you have said so far is straight crap for any economy like America to prosper on.

Why don't you educate yourself first, then talk to me about learning...

Solis - #7872

16 (edited by V.Kemp 30-Mar-2012 19:39:17)

Re: I like the Rich

Einstein,

Why would I "reread" your posts? And why do you repeatedly refuse to answer my questions? Twice you've responded defensively, offensively, and refused to respond to my inquiries.

You said:
"Most of our current rich got there by earning it. While some are exceptions to the rule (John Kerry's wife Teresa Heinz) the vast majority of them went out and earned it."

I asked you why you took the time to discriminate between wealth which is earned by a person themself, and wealth which is earned and then given to others. You defensively responded that you were "just pointing out facts." Duh. I didn't question whether it was a fact that Teresa Heinz inherited her wealth; I specified the source of her wealth. I asked why you referenced this fact. Wealth is made pimping too. Wealth is invested in bait shops that sell fishing items to hicks too. These are facts. But they have no relevance to the topic, so they're obviously not mentioned here. You mentioned Teresa Heinz's inheritance, implying that inheritance of earned wealth, as opposed to directly earned wealth, is somehow relevant to the topic. I simply asked how it is relevant to the topic, just as I would if you had pointed out facts regarding pimps or fishing shops.

The answers to my questions are not in your previous posts. They're questions arising out of implications in your original posts which you were very vague about. They're simple questions, so I'm sure you could figure them out.

Perhaps you were just digressing to completely irrelevant information. Perhaps you meant that earned wealth which is given to others is not as legitimate and respectable as directly earned wealth--This was my impression. In any event, it wasn't anything to get defensive about, insult me over, or refuse to answer. I simply asked for clarification.

You sound like a typical politician, lashing out offensively when you're confronted by something you don't understand/isn't a talking point. They were simple questions, clearly explained. If you have time after removing your foot from your mouth, consider rereading my posts.

Edit: I should also point out that your statement:
"Excepting Hollywood most of them earned it by providing jobs. While there are exceptions (stock market) businesses such as Apple employ tons of people providing what we desire."
Is completely factually untrue, regarding the stock market not contributing to job creation. I have pointed this out. Yet it remains in your post and you have not responded to the subject further. Has xeno hacked your account, or do you similarly just ignore the truth when you've decided to pretend something else?

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

17 (edited by Justinian I 30-Mar-2012 19:41:50)

Re: I like the Rich

Riddler,

Flies right past you doesn't it?

I have said that:

1. The minimum wage and unions have a negative impact on the economy.
2. I have a problem when the system is rigged to impose barriers to entering the market.
3. The US system is very much rigged in such a way.
4. I have a profound fondness of Milton Friedman, a famous American economist who favored a free-market economy and less government intervention. Moreover, he visibly debated socialists.
5. I think negative income tax is better than a flat tax (although it's similar).

Then, somehow, you reason that I am some sort of redistributive, lets all be equal, hippy socialist. WTF?

Re: I like the Rich

You said you support a negative income tax, and you can't understand how someone would describe you as redistributive... Yeah, I think you can figure that one out for yourself if you try a little harder. tongue

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: I like the Rich

Oh yeah, I am redistributive... then so was Milton Friedman.

Re: I like the Rich

invesment bankers work so hard to make thier moeny i can see the sweat beads as they sip thier coffee, though its probably from the coffee. gotta love how people fall into wealth.

why do we tax income? this in a way i agree with einstien that it is dirrect conflict with making a large profit. perhaps taxing savings, investments. make them spend that money! and as far as i am concearned the tax brackets are fair and even, for the portion of thier moeny that falls within our earnings, they are taxed the same as us.

Re: I like the Rich

They are NOT taxed the same as us. To even say that is just plain stupidity. The fact is, they have a higher tax rate.

A negative income tax IS redistributive no matter what sort of spin you want to put on it.

And while you keep mentioning Milton and saying he is American as if it is supposed to make me love the guy or something....why? Just because you believe him to be some sort of genius in economics does not mean that he was.

All I see in this thread is a bunch of poor people moaning about how they hate the rich. It sounds a lot like a loser in high school getting mad at the football team cause they are popular. When you earn something, whether inherited or not, you have the right to that and should not be penalized any more than the person who has not earned anything because of it. Great idea to punish those who work hard....that is exactly how you get people who won't work in the first place.

Oh, and if you are seriously going to pick investment bankers out of the pile of rich people out there and use them as your sole example...consider the hours they put in, consider the training and skill level required to be proficient at it.

Nothing of worth comes easy

Solis - #7872

Re: I like the Rich

nice trash post. gotta take note, if you wanna prove your right about something. just talk shit

Re: I like the Rich

I am insulted to the highest degree


Kemp is acting like I am Xeno.


Dear God... I support everything Kemp supports in this thread, yet he acts like the reverse?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: I like the Rich

This is entertaining.  It's like a right-wing intra-fam war.  big_smile

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: I like the Rich

1) Identifying the fact that most millionaires and billionaires worked to get it shows that anyone can achieve the dream of being rich

2) Identifying that most did it without being in Hollywood or a numbers person shows anyone can achieve the dream of being rich.

3) By showing such I am pointing out that any jealousy or anger against the rich is silly, since we clearly do not have permament landed nobility classes that prevent all others from rising upwards (yet)



Now I am frustrated you cannot see those points X(

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)