Re: American Liberals are Sith

It is my stance that Liberals in America are Sith. Based on the Star Wars series of course, and the books. I will start with the vehicles.

The Tie Fighter was the weapon of choice for the Empire. Solar powered, ion engines, cramped occupant space, no cargo capabilities, needed a Central Station to get from planet to planet, no accessories, and designed to be mass produced in quantity, not quality.

This is compared to the Green Solar initiative, electric engines ideal which has lead to cars such as the Volt and Smart Car... vehicles with almost no space, no accessories and are hoped to be mass produced for a population undesiring of them.

Now the Tie Fighter did have variants, including the Tie Bomber... but they were all variants baseed off of the same basic model.

Now the alliance did not have just one core craft. They had the A-Wing, the B-Wing, the X-Wing and the Y-Wing. Additionally they had upgraded the X-Wing from the Z-Wing as well.

The alliance fighters had space aplenty for their pilots, were powered with fuel (remember the fueling scene in Empire Strikes Back?)

Each of these fighters was mostly made at different manufactorers, which shows Capitalism at work (this tidbit from the book series).

The differences also continue to Capital Ships.

The big arrow head ships of the Empire were based on one main form/shape. The stunning universality of it was kept from little to big on their Capital ships. The alliance however (and including in games and the book series) had a wide variety of ships and vessels.

In space craft there is two other important lessons...

The Empire littered and wasted resources. Most will insist this is not a liberal ideal. All I will say to this is drive into the Peoples Republic of Chicago, to the more socialist districts, and tell me that litter does not exist. As for wasting resources they do that all the time by preventing forest management because fires take a lot of effort to put down where thinning and/or removing deadwood (when done for profit) has no cost.

The second note is the difference in the empire of the haves and the have nots. Note that officers generally travelled around in the imperial shuttle. It was a graceful, luxurious vessel (though cargo variants existed) , designed for the elite of the Empire.

Next we have the political structure.

The Old Republic comes first. It was made up of a Federal Government over a number of planets. Each planet had envoys they made to the Federal Government who had voting power.

Each planet had the means to choose their own government, and Governments ranged from Meritocracies, to Republics, to Kingdoms, and even Dictatorships.

The Empire was created by belief in a single person, such as Obama, solving all the ills of society, and by giving him much expanded powers (Similar to Cuba, North Korea. Venzuela, Cambodia, and so forth).

The empire seized control of all star systems through gradual increases in central power.

The New Republic (as shown especially in the book series) was a return to a normal Republic with planetary aspects, but what appeared to be popular voting for the leadership (my read on it).


Businesses are also a good case study.

The Empire seized business after business (While at Thespin Lando noted it was harder and harder to do business thanks to the Empire), and was aimed at Government takeovers (ala General Motors style). It is important to note that the Empire seized control of the drug industry (of which Han Solo was a smuggler for those wishing to avoid the Government) similar to what some nations have done in the past.


The training of Sith and Jedi also is a clear point of difference

The Sith are trained to follow their emotions. "Your anger gives you strength". In the books we are also shown the Sith believed in corrupting others, in bribery, in assassinating opponents, in smuggling, and in other illicit deals. They tended to operate from the shadows, even when they got into positions of power, with a public persona and a private persona.

Contrast this to modern times and we see Chinese donations to Democrat elections, pay to play schemes, building up emotions of anger in the population over the cop in Harvard and the recent self defense shootiing in Florida, the Democide of political opponents in N. Korea, China, Russia, Cuba, and more, the concealed background of Obama (what were his grades, what did he study, who were classmates, etc.), and the Corn Husker Kickback.

But lets return to the most critical part: Emotions.

By far and large the left lives on emotions. "It's not fair", "It's not right", and so forth exist in zounds for the left. To see emotions ruling the person one need look only at such examples as the Rodney King riots, the Wisconsin Unions, the attitudes torwards those who cross picket lines, the Zimmerman case, and the Occupy Wall Street crowd.

The left is literally ruled by their emotions and can be made to mobilize if something can affect their emotions.



The Jedi were taught to remain free from emotion, to think things through, to find the true answers. The Jedi operated openly, and were reknown at being Diplomats. They did not shy from using force if required to defend themselves or others, but did not use it otherwise. They had a council which made decisions for the whole, and had a private school to teach their students.

The Jedi loved the ideal of freedom, of law, peace, and they were always willing to provide help, not via Government but from themselves.

We Conservatives try to think things through before making judgement, we follow laws and do not let our emotions weigh us down. We always have wanted peace, though we acknowledge evil exists and must be watched for.

We tend to give more of our own, and fight to stop Government hand-outs. We believe in school choice, and prefer a Republic to a tyranny. We believe in Freedoms and Rights. We also acknowledge responsibility. We are Jedi.

An important part in the book series is the racism that grew in the Empire. It was so strong that Wookies were made slaves, as were other species sometimes. In particular we saw the decimation of the Jawa's. Jawa's are similar to gypsies. Wookies would be a representation of 'big hairy neanderthals' a common statement (amongst similar others) of the left of people on the right. Additionally Wookies were extremely smart and highly technical (book series) but could not speak human (at least generally)..

This racism is exhibited against any race which rejects the 'morals' of the left.

However it goes beyond just that for comparisons. Alderaan was for instance destroyed by the Death Star. This was a form of Democide against those who were not full supporters of the Empire.

In real life this is represented by the massive amounts of Democide done by China, USSR, North Vietnam, N. Korea, Cambodia, and all in the name of Socialism [Look Democide up online, the evidence for my statement exists].

Those who do not support socialism are the enemies. We saw this with the movie depicting the murder of George W. Bush, we see it with the targeting of non-union jobs by unions, we see it with the peace marches against Republicans but not Democrats, we see it with the bussed in protesters to the houses of those who do not follow the Democrat line, we see it with the Black Panthers standing outside a voting station with batons, and we see it with the coordinated fake outrages of the left.

The characters in the stories also support this.

Han Solo was a man out to get a buck who thought the Government was a pain more than a solution. He smuggled drugs, weapons, and gambled. He was a Libertarian who was mostly anti-war at the start, but was drawn into it for three reasons: 1) Love, 2) the end of his being able to smuggle, 3) the Empire knew who he was.

Lando was the consument businessman and gambler. He could find profit anywhere. His problem was that he got kicked out of many ventures by the Empire. When he famously sided with the Empire to save his company he was betrayed. Lesson learned for him, but sadly not for our industries... lying down with the enemy can be very dangerous.

Luke Skywalker was a semi-ignorant farmer. He did not know much of the Empire or the Rebellion. He learned the hard way and thus became a champion according to the story line. He was rural, Conservative, a believer, cared for his family, and went on to destroy the Emporer. His story did not end there, in the books he championed an effort to understand the force, he helped in a few key ways, flirted with the dark side, abandoned the dark side. His story of the dark side reads like what those recovering from drug addictions say... it never truly leaves you, the urge to return.

Chewbacca was a warrior once, and somewhere fell in with Han Solo. He was a friend with Han, but at times he was also Han's concious. I wont try to classify him except to say... he was a soldier of the right.

R2D2 was a rugged individualist who followed those he respected. While supposedly property he was treated as a friend. In this capacity he represented a soldier through and through.

C3PO "Cybernetic human relations"  was a servant, but as an unsure diplomat who preffered peace, though he never nay sayed any combat to harshly.

Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker started as a poor boy in a bad land saved by the Jedi. He grew up in the Jedi and was respected for his growing skills and his potential. When he converted to the dark side it was total. He killed children, stalked other Jedi, plotted and planned against even the Emporer.

He was a man of the right gone to the left after being given a high level of power and authority. Such as Ruth Ginsburg, such as McCain, and such as Arlen Spector. Amazingly instead of losing power he kept it, and even grew. Only at death did he finally repent.

The Emporer Palpatine, aka Darth Lord Sidious of the Sith, was a man with a flowery tongue with great speeches. His double side was little known outside his circle as ambassador for Naboo and he got to be leader of the Republic on the percieved inability of his predecessor.

Then Palpatine used his influence to create discord, none of which could be directly tied to him. Eventually a group, best described as corporate in nature, rebelled against him. We know of course that the Clone Wars ended badly for them.

First he sought emergency powers 'for the crisis'. Later as the Crisis expanded he universally reformed the Republic to an Empire.. "to thunderous applause".

All eggs were placed in his basket. Compare this to N. Korea, to Venzuela, to China, and to Cuba. Compare his oratory to Obama. Yes i am going there, and willingly.

Yoda... is like a friend of mine, who fought orally for the Republic before i ever did, then lost hope and is withdrawn. I hope one day to draw him out and make him be the strong Jedi he was once more. He is cranky, stubborn in his insistance the time of the Jedi (Conservative cause) is over but he still makes his smart alec remarks time to time. I hold out hope he will train a new Jedi and perhaps take up the saber again himself.


The story of Star Wars is one of Liberalism versus Reaganism. Yes I went there to. The Republic needs you if you stand for freedom, the Republic will fall without those stepping up. Join us by becoming a Precinct Committee Person.






Excuse typos, typed up over the last week on my phone. I will fix later with my laptop.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: American Liberals are Sith

Damn you talk a lot of bullshit. Im amazed every single time when you start bashing the brighter half of the US where you get these retarded ideas.

<@Nolio> Ilu was the man back in the day,he even made monkeywrench and arganon look good for half a round =p
<@iluvatar> it is my grandest achievement
<@Nolio> *half a round  =p
<@iluvatar> still
* Final_Doom is now known as Thanks_Iluvatar

Re: American Liberals are Sith

Your brighter half Iluvatar is using too much energy and needs to turn off the lights obviously. Aside from their economic stupidity I am sure the heat has gotten to their brains and caused a lot of damage as well.

So yeah, turn the lights off now and again oh bright ones....

Solis - #7872

Re: American Liberals are Sith

amazing ideas smile

But, aren't you in an campaign? Writing this must have took some time. Better spend your time kissing babies, hug everybody in reach and tell some lies like all politicans do.

Re: American Liberals are Sith

The wonderful bit was that what flint wrote was the whole reason why Lucas designed his two sides that way... though I have a feeling he was thinking of Soviet Russia at the time.... Not slightly less capitalist americans

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

6 (edited by ~Wornstrum~ 02-Apr-2012 09:26:25)

Re: American Liberals are Sith

Ok, so firstly I am going to point out flaws in your analogy (coz damn it, your mistakes in your knowledge of Star Wars is insulting)

"Now the Tie Fighter did have variants, including the Tie Bomber... but they were all variants baseed off of the same basic model."

The TIE Advanced, seen in Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope, is not limited to mass transportation of a carrier (ie. The Death Star, Star Destroyers) as it also has its own hyperdrive system. This is also the case in the game X-Wing (classic game...love it!). The Tie Advanced was as maneuvrable as an A-Wing, but still based off the original design of TIE fighters. The TIE Advanced later lead to the TIE Avenger and TIE Defender which both had hyperspace capabilites

Furthermore, there was the Assault Gunboats built by Cygnus, armed with sheilds, missile launchers, and a hyperdrive system. These were deployed on many deep space missions (seen in the game X-Wing)

"The alliance fighters had space aplenty for their pilots, were powered with fuel (remember the fueling scene in Empire Strikes Back?)"

Ok, you saw the X-Wings and Y-Wings being refuelled at the end of Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope, right before they destroyed the first Death Star. In episode 5, there was no refuelling being done, as all space craft was ready for launch at the start (albiet out in the cold), and no other reference to refuelling was made during that movie. Futhermore, in Star Wars Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith, Obi Wan Kenobi does request to use Utapau as a base to refuel to search nearby systems.

"While at Thespin Lando noted it was harder and harder to do business thanks to the Empire"

Thespin? Do you mean Bespin? tongue

"Additionally they had upgraded the X-Wing from the Z-Wing as well."

The X-Wing was actually acquired by the Alliance to serve as a multi-purpose fighter (armed with torpedoes, sheilds, and capable of hyperspace travel), and was to actually REPLACE the Z-95 (is referenced as Z-95 and not a Z-Wing, and can be seen like that in the game Empire At War, as well as the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook).


"The big arrow head ships of the Empire were based on one main form/shape. The stunning universality of it was kept from little to big on their Capital ships. The alliance however (and including in games and the book series) had a wide variety of ships and vessels."

Ok, this is wrong. The Empire also used Nebulon B Frigates (as seen in the game X-Wing) which area also made at the Kuat Shipyards (the manufactoring stage for the Star Destroyers). Now, when we look at the Alliance ships, we start to notice that they are all acquired through purchases, or are donated to the cause by allies in the fight against the Empire, for example, the Mon Calamari Cruisers were only used because of the Mon Calamari support of the cause. Furthermore, the Empire also used other manufactoring companies to add to their arsenal, such as Cygnus (gunboats, and subcontractor for the Lambda class shuttles, Sienar for the TIE fighters, Kuat Shipyards for their capital ships). Furthermore, Han Solo boasted about outrunning Corellian cruisers ("not the bulk cruisers mind you"). The Corellian Engineering Corporation was also selling ships for private use, such as the CR-90 which was favoured by the Rebel Alliance (and senator Organa). So both sides were sourcing ships from different manufactorers.

"The second note is the difference in the empire of the haves and the have nots. Note that officers generally travelled around in the imperial shuttle. It was a graceful, luxurious vessel (though cargo variants existed) , designed for the elite of the Empire."

These shuttles are also extensively used for troop deployments and cargo movements. If we go back to the Star Wars games, in Empire at War, most troop deployments used the Lambda-class Shuttles, and in the X-Wing game, the shuttles were used to deliver goods to capital ships (in one campaign, you had to acquire a tactical nuke, and then smuggle it onboard the Star Destroyer Invincible...awesome!)

"The empire seized control of all star systems through gradual increases in central power."

For this, I would also remind you that the senate was disolved permanently, and that the regional governers are now in direct control of their star systems. Fear, will keep the local systems in line, fear of this battle station. (Wow, I may have watched this movie too much). It wasn't an increase in central power that ruled the galaxy, in fact the central power was disolved and the military took over.

"It is important to note that the Empire seized control of the drug industry (of which Han Solo was a smuggler for those wishing to avoid the Government) similar to what some nations have done in the past."

Han Solo was not smuggling needed medicines, but smuggling spices (I don't think Jabba the Hutt was looking for pain killers). Furthermore, Han Solo did say that he had completed the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs. Kessel's main purpose was "spices" (in which C3PO was scared of ending up in the spice mines of Kessel, smashed into who knows what). In Empire at War, it also mentions that Kessel is only used as a spice mine.

"We tend to give more of our own, and fight to stop Government hand-outs. We believe in school choice, and prefer a Republic to a tyranny. We believe in Freedoms and Rights. We also acknowledge responsibility. We are Jedi."

The Jedi are also impartial, acting as mediators during disputes (as seen in Knights of the Old Republic). They had their mortal enemies, but actually tried to stay as clear from politics as possible, which the Conservative party is not. I may have accepted that you compared yourself to a political party in the movie, but I am struggling to find one that would be an accurate comparrison.

"Additionally Wookies were extremely smart and highly technical (book series) but could not speak human (at least generally).."

Wookies were very much the warrior race (look at Battlefront). Also, wookies are capable of understanding "Galactic Basic" but cannot speak it.

"In particular we saw the decimation of the Jawa's."

Well, Jawa's are indigenous to Tatooine. The only reference to Jawa's in any of the movies was on Tatooine, and the deaths of Jawa's cannot be linked to any form of racism since it is not clear how the dialogue between Imperial forces and the Jawa's was conducted.

"He was a Libertarian who was mostly anti-war at the start, but was drawn into it for three reasons: 1) Love, 2) the end of his being able to smuggle, 3) the Empire knew who he was."

Ok, if you wanted to get into the history of Han Solo, then you should also know that he was at the academy for Imperial forces, but later dropped out (I am not sure why). In Empire at War, he is used to sneak past the defences to steal Imperial secrets. 

"Luke Skywalker was a semi-ignorant farmer. He did not know much of the Empire or the Rebellion."

He didn't know much of the Empire or the Rebellion?! Wow, ok, lets take a look at Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope. He showed clearly that he knew about the Clone Wars (when he was talking to Obi Wan) and he also showed an interest in joining the "academy" which is implied is the school for training rebel soldiers (since later when he reunites with Biggs "hey, I told you I'd make it some day" clearly his intentions were to join the Rebel Alliance). Furthermore, he was very excited to find out that C3PO and R2D2 were both involved in the struggle between the Rebel Alliance and the Imperial forces.

"Chewbacca was a warrior once, and somewhere fell in with Han Solo. He was a friend with Han, but at times he was also Han's concious. I wont try to classify him except to say... he was a soldier of the right."

He was helping smuggle contraband and illegal goods for known criminals. His only allegience was to Han Solo, and if we go back to them being captured on the Death Star, Chewbacca was also unhappy about being there ("*rawr*" "oh you said it Chewwy...where did you dig up that old fossil?" "Ben is a great man" "Yeah, great at getting us into trouble"...). He was not a soldier of the right, except that he sided with the protection of his own homeland in Star Wars Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith, where, aided by Yoda, repels the invading forces. You could say that he was anti-Imperial due to the slaughter of his own race, but that was never came up.

"Yoda... is like a friend of mine, who fought orally for the Republic before i ever did, then lost hope and is withdrawn. I hope one day to draw him out and make him be the strong Jedi he was once more. He is cranky, stubborn in his insistance the time of the Jedi (Conservative cause) is over but he still makes his smart alec remarks time to time. I hold out hope he will train a new Jedi and perhaps take up the saber again himself."

Except he is dead? Ooops, spoiler alert...again, you are equating the Jedi with a political stance, but in fact, the jedi were above politics. Furthermore, he was an accomplished swordsman (and fought against Count Dooku, and the Emporer). Yoda never sought a higher power, as conservatives do, but instead was more about teaching "younglings" about the way of the force. I think my lecturer is closer compared to Yoda than you are tongue You take sides, where as Yoda was about keeping harmony (he did know that young Skywalker was tempted by the dark side, but let him discover that on his own). 

And I will conclude with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=fLrpBLDWyCIure=endscreen&v=fLrpBLDWyCI

EDIT: Formatting was all screwy, sorry about that

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: American Liberals are Sith

Oh no you didn't! Imma opening a can on your ass for this!

Expect me!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: American Liberals are Sith

Ok, while you are at that, I am going to continue:

"the Democide of political opponents in ... China"

The only time you were able to demonstrate democide in China was from the famines in China during the 1960's. This was not a planned democide of political opponents but one of poor planning from the transition to an industrial age. In fact, most often political opponents disappear, and then reappear as "re-educated" citizens (there was a Hong Kong artist recently, for example).

"In real life this is represented by the massive amounts of Democide done by China, USSR, North Vietnam, N. Korea, Cambodia, and all in the name of Socialism [Look Democide up online, the evidence for my statement exists]."

Again, China is based on famine that was not done intentionally, but through poor planning.

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: American Liberals are Sith

the Famine and the Opium Users that were exterminated

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: American Liberals are Sith

w00, just noticed that i am on probation!

I maintain that flint is partly right, that Lucas was trying to loosly base his factions on the "good guys" of american freedom lovers and the "bad guys" of soviet russia. I don't know if you can apply it as Flint has done here, but still...

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: American Liberals are Sith

"Opium Users that were exterminated"

I can't find anything about this at all (I have been searching almost an hour). Based on your own link before, it did say that a bulk of Chinese numbers were in fact based on the famine (http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM) and furthermore, that the famine was caused by the shift to self reliance in things like steel.

I cannot find any reference to Opium users being killed except in recent years after drug problems have begun to resurface (and it is mostly trafficers that get killed). In fact, unless you can prove otherwise, that it was much a social effort to kick the habit (http://revcom.us/a/china/opium.htm).

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: American Liberals are Sith

When Mao came to power in 1949 there were an estimated 20 million drug users in China. Using harsh methods, including executions, the Communists were able to rid China of its drug problem almost over night.

I had read a book on this part and did not distinguish the famine and the opium killings...

The essential part as I read it is that Mao had as much as half of the addicts shot dead, and the other half were put in 're-education camps'. I assume the worst case addicts were the ones killed. The details of the situation included information on the dens, how often times an addict could die there and his body would not be touched until it stank.



Aha!

The opium problem was solved with a declaration that anybody found using it or selling it would be put to death.

This site includes source stuff seems http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=73&catid=2&subcatid=6

I dont have time to review the different links tho

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: American Liberals are Sith

That just mentions punishment. The fact is that those same laws are in place in many countries in Asia (Singapore would be an interesting example). I still see nothing about figures of the "executed"...furthermore if the executed counts as "democide"

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: American Liberals are Sith

I think Lucas wrote the original trilogy with the USSR in mind as the Evil Empire

but with the end of the Cold War he decided to switch metaphors

just another reason the prequels suck

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.