Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

Ancient Greece.  Was it more or less egalitarian in its wealth distribution than it is today?

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

hahahahahahhahahahahhahahhahahhahaha troll

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Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

"Ancient Greece" refers to a large area and a long period. I'm going to assume you use it to mean Classical Athens?

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

Don't feed the troll. A 10 year old with interwebs could answer this question in a minute flat.

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Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

As a Classics student I'm interested to see where this is going.

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

As with all trolling, it goes wherever you take it. And it grows as much as you feed it! IT'S ALIVE. RUN FOR YOUR LIVES.

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Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

The romans took all their gold, so I could answer yes and no... tongue

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
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Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

Baratheon, may I mail you some history texts? I feel bad that kids today are embarrassingly ignorant.

I already explained on what grounds I labeled it trolling:
"A 10 year old with interwebs could answer this question in a minute flat."

And now you're similarly claiming to be so ignorant you want to "discuss" a topic you've literally not spent 1 single minute learning anything about.

I will admit, there's a thin line between trolling and just stupid.

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9 (edited by ~Wornstrum~ 02-Apr-2012 10:31:35)

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

Hey now... he [is a wonderful person]

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
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10 (edited by ~Wornstrum~ 02-Apr-2012 10:33:13)

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

I find most things classical fascinating, but the idea of _any_ sort of "discussion" in this context is just silly.

Let's consider a few things...

Massive number of slaves. No equality here.

Non-citizens. Nope, no equality.

But, to their credit, women were... nope. Just kidding.

And after establishing that he meant "egalitarian" only among the minority of human beings there who could participate in the political system, we'd confront the fact that, no, leaders did not receive the same wages as soldiers and quartermasters and... whatever.

There's a bit to be said for the "egalitarian" nature of their political system in regard to access [edit: [for citizens]], but not at all in the "wealth distribution" context used here.

There's plenty to talk about in Ancient Greece. First, wanna specify a city-state? Era? Thanks. But this thread just opens up with a whole lot of apathy that suggests the poster was probably [researching this topic] or something when he posted it. There's absolutely no chance anyone would post such spam if they had _any_ desire to know _any_thing about the topic. Compared to today, he asks? That's just silly. Really, really, ridiculously silly.

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11 (edited by V.Kemp 27-Mar-2012 10:47:42)

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

>>"Slaves" in Ancient Greece weren't the same as African slaves that Americans brought, bound and chained, to the US. Albeit this is another example how Americans have a singular and provincial understanding of certain words, I won't digress down that way.<<

They couldn't participate in the political process. They were no equals to citizens. It was an example of the society not being "egalitarian" in even the political-access context. It stands as such an example. It's also an example of there being absolutely no equality if wealth, but that's an absolutely laughable idea and no such examples are necessary.

You fail to mention that slaves were also acquired through war, piracy, and trade.

"Slave" is an English word. We're not speaking Greek and you can't claim a translation error. When we say "slave" in English, we mean "slave." We have words like "servant" for servants and "poor" for those with little wealth. Ancient Athenians had slaves.

Unless you're trolling. Then hahaha. Good one. I honestly can't tell.

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Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

Your a slave to the system Kemp!




Now that's trolling!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

You're*

Owned!

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Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

Oh you bought me on a typo huh?

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

*stabs Kemp with a rusty pitchfork a dozen times*

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

That's not a typo any more than it is grammar! It's the WRONG WORD(S)!

Brain fart, perhaps. But you made no such claim in your defense!

*dies of tetanus anyway*

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

Actually it is 'way past E's bedtime' of an error... sleepy so sleepy.

Damn boss is gonna yell at me in morning. *shrug*

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

Therefore it's categorized under "brain fart" as I suggested and your use of the word "[a]ctually" offends me!

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Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

No.  All city states drew a line between their people and foriegners.  Some had aristocracy too, but even the Spartans who were pretty egalitarian among themselves were slaveraiding racist bastards to their helots.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Greece

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

Kemp it would be 'brain fatigue' and yes... I was very tired.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

My term is more humorous! Why don't you just give up?

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22 (edited by xeno syndicated 28-Mar-2012 06:15:39)

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

Well, this essay says Ancient Greece around 300 AD was quite egalitarian, comparable to many modern states:

http://www.princeton.edu/~pswpc/pdfs/ober/051001.pdf

""The late-classical
Athenian citizen-family level of total-wealth inequality is roughly comparable to that of
the total population of the USA in 1953-54 (0.71). It is less equal than Canada in 1998
(0.69), but a more equal than Florence in 1427 (0.788) or the USA in 1998 (0.794). It is
much more equal than the USA or England in the early 20th century (0.93 and 0.95
respectively).27"

As of 2005, according to the Gini coefficient, Greece's level of inequality was 33.

Looks as if the US in 1953-54 was at a 37

Looks as if some conversion could be applied on this basis to say that Ancient Greece around 300 AD would have had a Gini coefficient factor of 37 then.

Thus, you could consider, if the above essay's findings are correct that Greece's gini coefficient is probably more or less the same as what it was in 300 BC

23 (edited by V.Kemp 28-Mar-2012 08:17:05)

Re: Ancient Greece: more or less egalitarian

That's very helpful. You've cherry-picked one guesstimate of one city-state during one time period and drawn a connection with one form of measure.

Guesstimations lead to whatever numbers the researchers are predisposed to desire.

We're talking about "relative" equity in wealth distribution.

"there was a substantial

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