Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/pdf/71109main_00-091.pdf



In the journal Nature, a study led by Western physics and astronomy professor Wayne Hocking reveals new discoveries about how ozone moves through our skies and how so-called

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

....just looking at what you quoted..."

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

not 100%, no.

But so much is natural we cannot break out of variability

The ozone is a self building, self opening mechanism.

Let me describe it another way.

A single ant is representative of mankind. A horse is representative of the Ozone. The ant can try to eat the horse, and keep bitting. But it will never get past the leather exterior.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

thing about ozone hole was, people went outside with a UV meter and saw that more UV was hitting the surface of earth than ever, and people all over the world were reporting that, and then satellites measured fluctuating O3 levels.  So it was direct observation.

What you have with AGW is a systemic average that appears only after you feed tens of thousands of bits into a computer that "corrects" for errors and then tells you the annual global temperature ranges.  Measuring in one spot all year won't "solve" the problem.   And NOW, it can't explain why there's been a decade with stagnant temperatures.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

I edited the front post, I had taken the post, inserted a LOT of links, removed typos (it was originally typed on my smart phone), changed the structure a bit, and reposted it here as well as posted it elsewhere.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

> Einstein wrote:

> not 100%, no.

But so much is natural we cannot break out of variability

The ozone is a self building, self opening mechanism.

Let me describe it another way.

A single ant is representative of mankind. A horse is representative of the Ozone. The ant can try to eat the horse, and keep bitting. But it will never get past the leather exterior.



And yet they describe it as SIGNIFICANT effects...you use analogies that are inaccurate...

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

These guys will always pad. That's the problem.

"Well this experiment proved my theories were bunk, I do apologize for alarming you, spending ten million on non-returnable custom equipment" just is not going to give them a future.

So when they are wrong they have to save face. They will find a way to save face and keep on the public tit for funds.

Remember they, not others, cried wolf in the Ozone Hole. A small group that got the funds for the most part.

So you have to be a critical thinker and examine their claims, their supposed findings, and reality.

When they find something like this, contrary to their whole structure... and twenty years passes without a growth to the hole that we can decisively control... you have to start wondering eventually.

Remember when you educate a population on a dangerous issue more will show up for treatment. Including the guy having a drug overdose nexr week, the lady crashing her car into a parked semi, and the guy committing suicide by cop.

As we advance how long people live, as we make medical advancements to which make examining for more issues easier, we increase statistics gathered per capita. This increase also brings awareness that may not have been able to happen before.

The Aborigines have a unique dark skin, unlike Africa or Asia. Why would this be? Can you make a potential connection?

Just consider what I have shown, what I have proven.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

http://s12.invisionfree.com/ppl_from_PHC_camps/ar/t221.htm

A short on Freon.

And let me kill the Ozone issue now

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/10/20/daleo-on-ozone-hole-it-is-very-likely-to-have-been-there-forever/

Oops seems we spent your billions and killed freon for no reason...

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

I think my intentions here have been completely misunderstood, I am not trying to argue for AGW, and I'm not trying to argue that certain specific things have or have not been observed. My point is that the review of evidence by Flint is flawed and biased. The apparent thickening of Antarctic ice sheets is an interesting case example, the sources given were either trash e.g. someone's blog, weren't about what Flint claimed they were, or as well as reporting increase ice thickness in Antarctica (which is not necessarily an indication of increased volume btw) also reported that temperature elsewhere had risen and that there was a decrease in ice in the Arctic. The points which which reinforce Flint's original bias and prejudice e.g. increase in Antarctic ice thickness are highlighted, while anything that contradicts Flint's existing prejudice is completely dismissed.

Another example of double standards is satellite data. Flint "the Satelite data is flawed (proven)". Also Flint " satellite images from the Antarctic summer have shown the largest sea-ice extent on record". So is satellite data reliable or not? The answer is that it is reliable when it suits Flint's pre-existing conclusions and unreliable when it suggests something different.

And even despite all my criticism you are still posting crappy sources e.g.
http://s12.invisionfree.com/ppl_from_PHC_camps/ar/t221.htm

^^ A post on a forum titled "Chatting Uselessly > Conspiracies"

You post hundreds of links that maybe you know nobody has time to read and inspect. Perhaps you genuinely believe they are good sources or perhaps you just bank on people not reading them, because as soon as they are inspected they turn out to be trash. Posting trash links weakens not strengthens your argument and undermines any valid points you may be making. What I have been trying to say all along is post fewer sources, post better sources, explain their relevance and make sure they say what you say they do.

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

As a side note Flint, since it suits the establishment and big business more to deny climate change than to act on it do you not think your conspiracy theory is the wrong way around?

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

There are many satelites in question.

1970's tech, 1990's tech, and more recent launches.

The older satelites were very inaccurate.


As for blogs. When a blog is citing a scientist, or is written by a scientist, or is citing a news article... but dismissing such is classic by you.

The people with the most to gain or lose are the ones crying wolf. Those specific individuals will see their careers ruined if proven wrong. They won't be able to do anything but flip hamburgers with something this big.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

"As for blogs. When a blog is citing a scientist, or is written by a scientist, or is citing a news article... but dismissing such is classic by you."

Oh I read the blog also, looked up the references to what he was quoting also, and I side with Sitting Duck on this one...you are taking an article, with only 4 references (each one no younger than 1994) and saying "look...someone said it's natural". I would read those books/articles if I could get my hands on it, but the "scientific" articles do not look that solid (something written by a first year undergrad to be honest (I mean my first year an article that long would easily be 10 or so references without trying)...

"The people with the most to gain or lose are the ones crying wolf. Those specific individuals will see their careers ruined if proven wrong. They won't be able to do anything but flip hamburgers with something this big."

Again, you are trying to make absurd positions. Wouldn't PROVING it is wrong also provide work for such scientists? Yes, yes it would...not only does research into the climate include other factors other than AGW, these scientists would have other oppurtunities in other research projects. This is unsubstaniated warmongering, and I need to get to class so I am going to end it here tongue

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

Examine my last two links.... Ozone case closed

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

Oh and mind you... those 6 links were chosen randomly.

Entirely at random.

Not even so much as viewing them.


Now why would I do that? Because I am so sure of my case that I can do so... if a problem was on a page I could... AND DID... address such a problem. My other links closed the holes, showed what was needing to be showed.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

Flint: you miss the point, your links don't show what you think and are not as strong as you seem to think... but then you want them to say what you think and therefore think they are case closed.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

"You post hundreds of links that maybe you know nobody has time to read and inspect. Perhaps you genuinely believe they are good sources or perhaps you just bank on people not reading them, because as soon as they are inspected they turn out to be trash. Posting trash links weakens not strengthens your argument and undermines any valid points you may be making. What I have been trying to say all along is post fewer sources, post better sources, explain their relevance and make sure they say what you say they do."

+1

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ ☭ Fokker

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

"Oh and mind you... those 6 links were chosen randomly.

Entirely at random.

Not even so much as viewing them."

^^ Exactly!

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

Re: Global Warming / Climate Change

Ok, so I started to read some of your sources in more details Flint, and I started with the Ozone one...you sir, are using a poor choice for a reference, and if you go and look at the references used in "http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/10/20/daleo-on-ozone-hole-it-is-very-likely-to-have-been-there-forever/" you will actually see that he is taking information out of context (The wattsupwiththat site also looks fairly iffy also...he used only a handful of sources and they all dispute his claims). Even take a look at the comments at the bottom of the article, they provide newer information that confirms the behaviour of the Ozone layer as predicted...but lets take a look see at some other information...

"In 1956, the British Antarctic Survey set up the Halley Bay Observatory on Antarctica in preparation for the International Geophysical Year (IGY) of 1957. In that year, ozone measurements using a Dobson Spectrophotometer began.

Observational evidence of the role of chlorine in ozone loss continued to mount during that same period. For example, the National Ozone Expedition (NOZE) measured elevated levels of the chemical chlorine dioxide (OClO) during the springtime ozone hole from McMurdo Research Station. Then in 1987, the Antarctic Airborne Ozone Expedition flew the ER-2 and DC-8 research aircraft from Punta Arenas, Chile, into the Antarctic Vortex.

The aircraft observations produced the

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~