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Imperial Forum → Politics → The Church and Government War
> Einstein wrote:
> If the religion is prolife then yes you are stopping them
Chris if I goto jail it will be from running my truck over people. Wornstrum you read into it to much.
No religion is pro life. There is, as far as I'm aware, no doctrinal support for being anti-abortion.
for 2000 years the Roman Church has taught that Christ was human and God from conception.
for the edification of all, and His greater glory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN-IPuaLpgQ
perhaps a religious tax may help the US to fund religious charity. the tax would be collected by the government and handed over to the religious groups. the religious organizations could be paid by the state as well, at least the higher ranks like bishops, mullahs... people who not want to pay the tax must leave their religious groups.
> The Yell wrote:
> for 2000 years the Roman Church has taught that Christ was human and God from conception.
He wasn't conceived in a way condoms or the morning after pill could have prevented.
The Roman Church can teach what it wants but that neither makes it true or gives it license to operate above the law.
"perhaps a religious tax may help the US to fund religious charity. the tax would be collected by the government and handed over to the religious groups. the religious organizations could be paid by the state as well, at least the higher ranks like bishops, mullahs... people who not want to pay the tax must leave their religious groups."
Must says who? The Church or the Government? Cause the Government is forbidden to by the First Amendment.
"He wasn't conceived in a way condoms or the morning after pill could have prevented."
Dunno, I do know that our Church has taught the unborn are human beings for 2000 years.
"41 And it came to pass that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost. 42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said: Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb. 43 And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold as soon as the voice of your salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. "
"The Roman Church can teach what it wants but that neither makes it true or gives it license to operate above the law."
The law forbids the Dept of HHS to repress the Church in the free exercise of its religion.
> The Yell wrote:
> "perhaps a religious tax may help the US to fund religious charity. the tax would be collected by the government and handed over to the religious groups. the religious organizations could be paid by the state as well, at least the higher ranks like bishops, mullahs... people who not want to pay the tax must leave their religious groups."
Must says who? The Church or the Government? Cause the Government is forbidden to by the First Amendment.
"He wasn't conceived in a way condoms or the morning after pill could have prevented."
Dunno, I do know that our Church has taught the unborn are human beings for 2000 years.
"41 And it came to pass that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost. 42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said: Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb. 43 And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold as soon as the voice of your salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. "
"The Roman Church can teach what it wants but that neither makes it true or gives it license to operate above the law."
The law forbids the Dept of HHS to repress the Church in the free exercise of its religion.
The Department of HHS? My immediate thought was Homeland Security but that probably isn't it. And the extent to which the Church (I'm using it as an umbrella term for Christianity just now, not as a reference to the Catholic Church) is allowed to enter and interfere with the world of politics seems rather disproportionate compared to how much politics can't interfere with religion.
"The Department of HHS? My immediate thought was Homeland Security but that probably isn't it."
Health and Human Services. A department of the US government with a larger budget than the entire German government, in a country that doesn't offer national healthcare.
"And the extent to which the Church (I'm using it as an umbrella term for Christianity just now, not as a reference to the Catholic Church) is allowed to enter and interfere with the world of politics seems rather disproportionate compared to how much politics can't interfere with religion."
Too bad. There is no blank slate. The same Constitution which sets up the federal government bans it from meddling in religion and guarantees the free exercise of religion. If we're ordered to disregard that guarantee we will instead disregard the authority of the govt.
And now it seems Jews are coming on board as the administration doubles down.
"Any religion that is singled out will result in all religions being singled out"
At this point all Christian Faiths are pushing on this as far as I can read.
Obama has truly united 67% of the nation behind a goal...
That goal is elimination of his presidency, elimination of Obamacare, and the end of Liberal dreams.
Thanks Obama... I guess you were the Conservative choice after all! Thanks for making my dreams come true!
He's announcing a "compromise"
Insurance must cover birth control and abortifacients
Church hospitals and schools must buy it
The insurer will say the church is not being charged extra.
...
Ermmm... how is that different?
be like the japanese, laugh like it's funny
it's not different - he really thinks the problem is they are told by the insurer that they are charged for it.
if the insurer just says he is not charging them for it, it will be free
so it will be ok! cause according to Obamanomics if you buy raisin bread, you are not paying for the raisins if the baker says they're free
so this 'compromise' is both bogus, and stupid.
Which shows Obama either really is Muslim, or he is an Athiest.
Oh wait that's rignt he voted present while in a black supremacy church... so he is just ignorant...
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/02/10/obama-accommodation-insurers-must-cover-contraception-at-no-cost-to-anyone/
Obama is getting the GOP windfall levels of donations now.
The Hispanic Community is outraged beyond all beliefs, and will probably end up solidly in the Republican ranks for the next decade.
Of all the blunders Obama could do...
Conservatism is on the rampage... I predict we will out earn (in donations) Democrats two to one if Obama does not back down.
Looks like it's all fixed, women will still get their birth control and the catholic church doesn't get to cry about it: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/white-house-to-announce-accommodation-for-religious-organizations-on-contraception-rule/
Since this will eventually result in a reduced supply of potential sex abuse victims, I expect some to still find a way to complain about the compromise.
That's the biggest fake compromise in the history of the world.
The outrage continues.
I expect that the Dems lose 8 seats in the Senate over this. Yes I call 8 seats. They will also lose 30 seats in the House.
Thanks for giving America back to Republicans!
you're eight hours late HotdogBun I already posted the details this morning
""Insurance must cover birth control and abortifacients
Church hospitals and schools must buy it
The insurer will say the church is not being charged extra.
...
""
> The Yell wrote:
> you're eight hours late HotdogBun I already posted the details this morning
""Insurance must cover birth control and abortifacients
Church hospitals and schools must buy it
The insurer will say the church is not being charged extra.
...
""
So what's wrong with that? [Sensitive comments not needed]
You seem fixed on molestation.
[No personal attacks, thanks!]
Oh and who did Mother Teresa hurt? Evidence?
How about we agree to do the maximum harm to child molestors regardless of their occupation, and stop accusing all people of faith of such.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa#Criticism
> Einstein wrote:
> You seem fixed on molestation.
[Not needed comment]
Oh and who did Mother Teresa hurt? Evidence?
How about we agree to do the maximum harm to child molestors regardless of their occupation, and stop accusing all people of faith of such.
Not all "people of faith", just the ones crying about having less victims to molest because of this policy.
7. Against individualism, the Fascist conception is for the State; and it is for the individual in so far as he coincides with the State, which is the conscience and universal will of man in his historical existence. It is opposed to classical Liberalism, which arose from the necessity of reacting against absolutism, and which brought its historical purpose to an end when the State was transformed into the conscience and will of the people. Liberalism denied the State in the interests of the particular individual; Fascism reaffirms the State as the true reality of the individual. And if liberty is to be the attribute of the real man, and not of that abstract puppet envisaged by individualistic Liberalism, Fascism is for liberty. And for the only liberty which can be a real thing, the liberty of the State and of the individual within the State. Therefore, for the Fascist, everything is in the State, and nothing human or spiritual exists, much less has value, outside the State. In this sense Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State, the synthesis and unity of all values, interprets, develops and gives strength to the whole life of the people.
...Fascism rejects in democracy the absurd conventional lie of political equalitarianism clothed in the dress of collective irresponsibility and the myth of happiness and indefinite progress. But if democracy can be understood in other ways, that is, if democracy means not to relegate the people to the periphery of the State, then Fascism could be defined as an "organized, centralized, authoritarian democracy.
11... It is the State alone that can solve the dramatic contradictions of capitalism. What is called the crisis cannot be overcome except by the State, within the State...The Fascist State has also claimed for itself the field of economics and, through the corporative, social and educational institutions which it has created, the meaning of the State reaches out to and includes the farthest off-shoots; and within the State, framed in their respective organizations, there revolve all the political, economic and spiritual forces of the nation...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but it leaves sufficient scope to individuals; it has limited useless or harmful liberties and has preserved those that are essential. It cannot be the individual who decides in this matter, but only the State."
Benito Mussolini, The Doctrine of Fascism 1932
Having said in Paragraph 6
"Politically, Fascism wishes to be a realistic doctrine; practically, it aspires to solve only the problems which arise historically of themselves and that of themselves find or suggest their own solution. To act among men, as to act in the natural world, it is necessary to enter into the process of reality and to master the already operating forces."
despite having said in Paragraph 7
" Therefore, for the Fascist, everything is in the State, and nothing human or spiritual exists, much less has value, outside the State. In this sense Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State, the synthesis and unity of all values, interprets, develops and gives strength to the whole life of the people."
we get this crap as Paragraph 12
"12. The Fascist State does not remain indifferent to the fact of religion in general and to that particular positive religion which is Italian Catholicism. The State has no theology, but it has an ethic. In the Fascist State religion is looked upon as one of the deepest manifestations of the spirit; it is, therefore, not only respected, but defended and protected. The Fascist State does not create a "God" of its own, as Robespierre once, at the height of the Convention's foolishness, wished to do; nor does it vainly seek, like Bolshevism, to expel religion from the minds of men; Fascism respects the God of the ascetics, of the saints, of the heroes, and also God as seen and prayed to by the simple and primitive heart of the People."
Historically of course, individuals who mistook this respect as grounds to trespass upon the liberty of the State to lean on the Church as a source of morals outside the State, went to the wall.
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa#Criticism"
Yeah sadly nobody was motivated by that criticism to replace her with superior care nor more discriminating fundraising, which is partly why the Govt of India gave this mean old Jesus-freak a State Funeral.
Please excuse my quoting Mussolini on the supremacy of the State over the conscience of the individual. Of course it could have no bearing on Obama's policies.
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