"Wrong.  Organization X cannot keep its debts separate from its income.  It IS all one pile of money."

No, unless you are saying that all sources of income are equal, which they are not. If it is one pile of money, then they would not charge extra for extra services, instead they have seperate charges for seperate services. To you, maybe, you see just one fund, but internally they would be balancing incoming funds for a certain service with the payments in that field (otherwise they are overcharging BASIC cover to cover these extra services which makes them uncompetative in the market).

I am amazed at just how badly polarised you see community and individuality. A community still has varying forms of input and output, and you are trying to make it as basic as possible and then complaining about it being so basic. Any collective is not equal (see, I am not a socialist in the traditional sense!) and you can not always look at direct investment or return because it is more complex than that.

Furthermore, there are many more personal actions that drain insurance funds (such as Smoking, drinking) so under your ideology, I would be more upset about this drain on funds I provide than the small portion abortion would be using. The only way you would be happy, is finding the same group of people with the same medical conditions as you, to join a community fund OR to setup individual costs for each service based on the costs for providing those services (ie, smokers pay an excess, people seeking additional services such as dental would be paying for inclusion in that pool, and so on). If you are seriously joining a medical fund that is not setup in this fashion, then you should really be shopping around.

"No, unless you are saying that all sources of income are equal, which they are not. If it is one pile of money, then they would not charge extra for extra services, instead they have seperate charges for seperate services."

If that were so, they would cease the bankrupt service---once they don't, they are supporting it from successful ventures.

Also, in America shortly the government will define the basic plan everybody has to buy.  You will be shopping for customer service experience --which company gives you a better time selling you  the exact same product.

That was a deliberate dig on China and Democide

And the Baptists are united in the cause as well.

Another 16 million dedicated soldiers of the Faith just turned eternally hostile to Obamacare, Obama, and Liberals.

Oh that 16 million is just one Church group.

Outrage in Christian communities of all nature is coming to a boil.

I would call this the apocolypse... wait maybe the Mayans were right after all...

For there is certainly a holy war under way with people pledging jail before compliance by the millions.

> Einstein wrote:

> And the Baptists are united in the cause as well.

Another 16 million dedicated soldiers of the Faith just turned eternally hostile to Obamacare, Obama, and Liberals.

Oh that 16 million is just one Church group.

Outrage in Christian communities of all nature is coming to a boil.

I would call this the apocolypse... wait maybe the Mayans were right after all...

For there is certainly a holy war under way with people pledging jail before compliance by the millions.

How melodramatic.  Every time the privileged position of Christianity attacks its automatically a "holy war" to some people.  Organised religions are already exempt from paying tax, as far as I'm aware.  They should not be exempt from equality or any other legislation.  They shouldn't even be exempt from paying tax as far as I'm concerned.  To some it's destroying the rights of Christians.  To others it is destroying the undeserved privileged position of Christianity in society.

"To some it's destroying the rights of Christians.  To others it is destroying the undeserved privileged position of Christianity in society."

Tough crap, the authority of that roomful of suits to impose taxes at all, also guarantees the privileged position of organized religion.  Namely the Constitution.

If you want to argue the practical power of the government, constitution or not, you will be given a practical demonstration of the impotence of government.

Chris if I wanted to goto jail I woule make sure at minimum it was for murder, if not mass murder.

So no worries...

I am just quoting others views.

"It does not give them privilege to violate the law. This is why the catholic church is held at fault for not reporting when a priest goes on a jacking-off-10-year-old-boys spree, rather than being allowed to handle it internally without law enforcement/gov't intervention. When their religious beliefs say that jerking off 10 year old boys isn't that big of a deal, the law clearly trumps their religious beliefs."

Right, that's clearly on a level with not buying birth control for other people. The whole of the American experiment has been a black tragedy because of this failure of human rights, not buying other people birth control for them so they can not worry about paying for it.  Not.

And no, the law will bow to religious beliefs.  Or else.

> The Yell wrote:

> "To some it's destroying the rights of Christians.  To others it is destroying the undeserved privileged position of Christianity in society."

Tough crap, the authority of that roomful of suits to impose taxes at all, also guarantees the privileged position of organized religion.  Namely the Constitution.

Uhh...  No it doesn't.  I've seen the U.S. Constitution and I'll now quote from it.  I quote specifically from the following website:

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

As far as I'm aware forcing Christian and other religious institutions to pay the same contributions towards birth control and abortificants like everyone else won't actually prevent Christians or anyone else from practising their religion.  It won't stop them going to church, it won't stop them taking holy Communion/the Sacrament/any other appropriate term.

This law is not restricting freedom of religion; it is restricting the freedom of religious institutes to operate with exemption from certain laws.  There is nothing wrong with this, IMO.  One law for all, and so on.

"As far as I'm aware forcing Christian and other religious institutions to pay the same contributions towards birth control and abortificants like everyone else won't actually prevent Christians or anyone else from practising their religion.  It won't stop them going to church, it won't stop them taking holy Communion/the Sacrament/any other appropriate term.

This law is not restricting freedom of religion; it is restricting the freedom of religious institutes to operate with exemption from certain laws.  There is nothing wrong with this, IMO.  One law for all, and so on."

for a few years the UN and one-worlders have been talking about FREEDOM OF WORSHIP which is distinct from US guarantee of Free Excerise of Religion

Going to a church service is worship
Preaching on a street corner is free exercise

And when a couple million people insist not paying for abortion, contraceptives or sterilization, directly or through insurance premiums, that's going to be tolerated as free exercise too.

It is religion that is guaranteed by the Constitution

the welfare state is not. 

This runs directly contrary to Obama's regularly touted vision of America justified by its govt programs

BRING. IT. ON.

No Justice, No Peace!

not sure what the Amish do, pretty much any religion I heard of that says stuff like that is newer than USA, and the newer ones tend to lose

there was a Native American Church that said it had to use peyote for religious visions, that got slammed down by Supreme Court

I think Wesley Snipes tried that and he was convicted

so I guess if you really believe God doesn't want you to pay taxes you go to jail
Quakers went to federal prison dodging the draft in WWI
because of that, in WWII they offered a religious exemption, because having crippled Quakers showing how govt handcuffed them to a fence to stand tiptoe all day made the govt look bad
Martin Luther King JR went to jail
So did Muhammad Ali