• Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Topic: The Church and Government War

In recent weeks the Obama Administration used regulatory powers included in Obamacare to dictate that all companies, institutions, charities, and so forth will have to provide coverage for birth control and abortificants (for the people not knowing the term, things like the morning after pill fall into this catagory)

In short this ruling requires Catholic (and other Christian organizations) to provide birth control and abortificants against their will.

The Church tried to quietly steer Obama back.

He slapped them and their worries down. He went to great lengths to tell them (paraphrased) to 'back off'

Well the Church is bringing it.

The first volleys are from the pulpits with the full anger and ire of the church.

I have already received indications of severe civil disobedience is impending as well.

Expect ads, expect fundraising against Obama, expect Get Out The Vote efforts against Obama, and most telling... be prepared if Communion is denied to all Democrat Politicians until they pass a law preventing this with Republicans.

This could be a huge game changer.

I am serious when I say there could be 20 million new voters in the Presidential Election and all of them against Obama.


During a time when the Republicans are depressed over Mitt being the presumptive one... where it almost seemed we would pull defeat from jaws of victory... we see a groundswell of sorts never imagined before.

I think this groundswell will lead to a brokered convention and the dashing of Romneys hopes.

I also think this could play huge in local elections.

I plan myself to run to Catholic groups and announce Unity with them due to this outrage.

War is here, the Church is on the move following transgressions by The State.

The election just got shook and you will see the anger in the streets!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 2,093
  • Tag points: 54

Re: The Church and Government War

"Abortifacients" sounds like they would be the Decepticons in a Catholic Transformers.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The Church and Government War

Thing is... I am surprised at Obama.

Prolife groups gave up hope of having their agenda heard except at a few States.

Now they will tie with the economy... a new battleground.

We had rolled over and played dead on this issue... Romney after all supports abortion.

If Obama had overruled this, or put it off, he would have had less worries.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 166

Re: The Church and Government War

If your religious beliefs prevent you from removing your burkha for a driver's license photo, your religious beliefs prevent you from having a driver's license.

If your religious beliefs prevent you from being searched by the TSA at an airport, your religious beliefs prevent you from using public air transit.

If your religious beliefs prevent you from meeting minimum legal requirements for your employees, your religious beliefs prevent you from being an employer.


FUN FACT:
98% of catholic women use birth control.

"See and Let Yourself Be Seen" - Robin Trower, Little Bit of Sympathy

"Do What Thou Wilt" - Aleister Crowley, Liber al Legis
**************************************************************
"The desperation in peoples eyes for a job to support themselves and/or their family... is palatable." -Einstein, http://www.imperialconflict.com/forum/v … ?id=157429 (post #18)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 5,595
  • Tag points: 241

Re: The Church and Government War

Well, then, HotDogBun... I hope you like having no Catholic hospitals providing aid to millions of people, Catholic and non-Catholic.  Care to explain to people receiving medical treatment completely unrelated to abortion as to why they aren't receiving said treatment?  wink


Remember, we're talking about a service these organizations are providing to others.  You're cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The Church and Government War

"Do no harm"

A doctors oath.

Some take that to mean the unborn.

"Life is sacred"

Churches take that to mean the unborn.

This is literally a case where both are united.


Congrats as painting yourself as an extremist who supports Government controlling religion HotDogBun. Birth control is not a security issue.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 166

Re: The Church and Government War

> Zarf BeebleBrix wrote:

> Well, then, HotDogBun... I hope you like having no Catholic hospitals providing aid to millions of people, Catholic and non-Catholic.  Care to explain to people receiving medical treatment completely unrelated to abortion as to why they aren't receiving said treatment?  wink


Remember, we're talking about a service these organizations are providing to others.  You're cutting your nose off to spite your face.


Employers don't get an out just because of their religious beliefs, they have to obey the law. Extortion doesn't change that.

"See and Let Yourself Be Seen" - Robin Trower, Little Bit of Sympathy

"Do What Thou Wilt" - Aleister Crowley, Liber al Legis
**************************************************************
"The desperation in peoples eyes for a job to support themselves and/or their family... is palatable." -Einstein, http://www.imperialconflict.com/forum/v … ?id=157429 (post #18)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 166

Re: The Church and Government War

>Congrats as painting yourself as an extremist who supports Government controlling religion HotDogBun. Birth control is not a security issue.

More hyperbole.

Employers must follow the law regarding employees regardless of their religious beliefs, security issue or otherwise. Nobody is forcing anyone to utilize birth control, only to provide health insurance which covers it. I like how you just happen to think it's ok to ignore religious beliefs where non-christians are concerned.

"See and Let Yourself Be Seen" - Robin Trower, Little Bit of Sympathy

"Do What Thou Wilt" - Aleister Crowley, Liber al Legis
**************************************************************
"The desperation in peoples eyes for a job to support themselves and/or their family... is palatable." -Einstein, http://www.imperialconflict.com/forum/v … ?id=157429 (post #18)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: The Church and Government War

Exactly backwards.  The law and the preferences of a President must obey the Bill of Rights, not the other way around.

"White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said Monday that American women

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

10 Reply by The Yell (edited by The Yell 07-Feb-2012 11:03:23)

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: The Church and Government War

abortifacients is latin meaning "abortion makers" .  It is the medical term for a drug that causes the uterus to spew a fertilized egg, popularly called a "miscarriage".  Induced miscarriage is an abortion.  It doesn't prevent conception from happening.  It terminates a pregnancy under way.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: The Church and Government War

"Well, then, HotDogBun... I hope you like having no Catholic hospitals providing aid to millions of people, Catholic and non-Catholic.  Care to explain to people receiving medical treatment completely unrelated to abortion as to why they aren't receiving said treatment? "

I've seen it estimated that 15% of the hospital beds in the USA are run through Catholic hospitals.  Of course if they won't meet the new, arbitrary, Obama-defined minimum for existence, then they can wither, because he thinks somebody else deserves their money.  And who are they to oppose the King's will?

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: The Church and Government War

BTW this shows how far off the rails America has gotten

Congress didn't say providing free birth control and abortions is part of the "minimum legal requirements for your employees".

Congress said all employers must have a basic plan, and the Secretary of HHS will determine the minimum.

The Secretary (and her boss Obama) have decided FREE BIRTH CONTROL and FREE ABORTION are the MINIMUM all employers must provide.

To counter that, if the Supreme Court doesn't pitch the law, the Republican House and the Democrat Senate must agree by 2/3 that the law giving her that permission must be rewritten.  (2/3 because Obama would veto.)

This is not law made with the consent of the governed.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The Church and Government War

Wow Chris finally got fired up again yikes

Good to see his old fire!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The Church and Government War

Oh and Hot Dog Bun... the Catholics and other Christians ARE THE MAJORITY. Prepare for an ass whooping like no other on this issue.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Noir
  • Player
  • Offline
  • Posts: 5,338
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The Church and Government War

Thought the US was a democracy

LORD HELP OREGON

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,808

Re: The Church and Government War

"Congrats as painting yourself as an extremist who supports Government controlling religion HotDogBun. Birth control is not a security issue."

Ok, if someone wants an abortion, they should be allowed it. If someone wants to use birth control, it should be allowed. If you do not want to use birth control, do not have sex (unless you are happy to have a baby).

If someone doesn't want to use birth control, they do not have to, right? This move sounds more about "pro-choice" than anything else. It will open up options to many women to do what they want (how is this bad?).

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The Church and Government War

Let me show you what is going on Wornstrum.

Say I am the leader of a Church, and my religion says no way can I help abortions because if I directly fund such I will go to hell.

As evidence shows I am religious and do take my soul to be worth more than other peoples lives.


Now the Government says that I must provide abortions or at least directly pay for them.


I am clearly going to say no, and get stronger in my saying no.


There are those who would smile as they kill people over this issue... if it goes that far... a civil war would be almost a certainty, deaths of thousands would be a certainty.





And to prevent the next question...

Life IS sacred... but to let you know... if a hand causes you to sin... cut it off... applies here. An unborn baby causes no harm to others... a person forcing others to lose their souls is an immeadiate threat and can be treated as such.

Of course I am only a danger to three people that I only know as aliases, and only provided they seek out human to human contact...

But this will cause tens of thousaands to become dangers to millions in very quick order.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

18 Reply by The Yell (edited by The Yell 07-Feb-2012 13:42:26)

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: The Church and Government War

"If you do not want to use birth control, do not have sex (unless you are happy to have a baby)."

But if you don't want to PAY for birth control, well you must emigrate from the USA or earn below $25,000 a year.  And definitely don't hire anybody.  Otherwise Obama ORDERS you to buy it. 

What's your address? I want a condom and I want you to buy it for me.

ofc that's not what he's doing.  What Obama is really doing is, ordering you to buy INSURANCE, so you pay money  to RapeCorp. to cover my condoms whether I actually use one or not.  If I actually do, they'll raise the amount of money you pay.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 5,595
  • Tag points: 241

Re: The Church and Government War

> ~Wornstrum~ wrote:

> If someone doesn't want to use birth control, they do not have to, right? This move sounds more about "pro-choice" than anything else. It will open up options to many women to do what they want (how is this bad?).



At what point does "pro-choice" become a proper argument for personal activity, but not economic activity?

This law could have been worded to give religious organizations a broader exception.  Under that exception, individual buyers would be able to choose whether they want the option to have an abortion covered under their insurance program, or whether they want to avoid any involvement in abortions.


In short, for some people, the "choice" in the "pro-choice" slogan involves the individual actually saying no to an abortion, and not wanting any part of the abortion process.  This bill eliminates that choice... effectively only creating one choice for people which the people find immoral.  In short, no, Wornstrum... this is not pro-choice.  It's pro-abortion.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,808

Re: The Church and Government War

Yay for pro-abortion! tongue

Sorry, I admit I honestly don't know much about this bill and the opposition to it...nor do I even understand your health care (I have always had private healthcare back home, and got private healthcover in China too)...

I think I am even more confused as to what is going on now than before...so people are being forced to have abortions?

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 360
  • Tag points: 8

Re: The Church and Government War

oh and einstein the do no harm secion of the docters oath doesn't concern unborn babies ( i heard that from a doctor).

it only applies to humans who are considered legal humans in the eyes of the law and strangely enough not even U.S law doensn't consider unborn babies as a legal lifeform i.e you have to be born before the docter can't do you harm

neither man nor machine can withstand the fury of winter

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The Church and Government War

Your doctor was not a Catholic, or was a CINO

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: The Church and Government War

wrong

Hippocratic Oath does mention a promise to avoid abortion

that's why doctors don't take the Hippocratic Oath in USA anymore

also in many states of USA if you kill an unborn baby you can be charged with murder

its a crime if the mother doesn't want the baby dead

if she does its a civil right somehow

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 166

Re: The Church and Government War

> The Yell wrote:

> Exactly backwards.  The law and the preferences of a President must obey the Bill of Rights, not the other way around.

"White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said Monday that American women

"See and Let Yourself Be Seen" - Robin Trower, Little Bit of Sympathy

"Do What Thou Wilt" - Aleister Crowley, Liber al Legis
**************************************************************
"The desperation in peoples eyes for a job to support themselves and/or their family... is palatable." -Einstein, http://www.imperialconflict.com/forum/v … ?id=157429 (post #18)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: The Church and Government War

yes wornstrum i am glad you are happy in china

China is so much better than other places

hi china internet cops!

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points