Topic: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

Let me define the topic title

Racism is the hatred of a person because of his regional heritage, anscestral heritage, religious heritage, or national heritage.

Examples include Anti-Semitism in pre-WWII Germany, Polish hating pre-WWII, racism against blacks, racism against whites, the Japanese pre-WWII, Chinese Hans against other Chinese groups, and so forth. Racism is supposedly different from other forms of hate... such as the hate some people feel to the words Republican, Tea Party, or Socialism. (P.S. I do not hate the word Socialism, I merely hate the damages it can and does do..)

Reverse Racism is where you exhibit racism in response to percieved (real or imagined) racism from others.

Hatred is used lightly here, as other emotions and standards can apply including a feeling of superioroty over others, whether physically, mentally, or religious based.

Most people havd a form of Racism or another.... or at least can be shown to have such. Yes I will explain.

Stereotyping is applying a broad belief about a person or a group. If I say "The best bankers in IC are all Americans" then I am stereotyping. If I say statistics show that the best bankers are Americans then I am not stereotyping. (For the record there are great bankers from everywhere but Antartica... oops another stereotype!)

A common pair of stereotypes I have run into are "Mexicans are hard workers" and "Mexicans are lazy". Surprisingly opposite are they not?

Some stereotypes can be based off of observed facts but without quantifying the facts it is still a stereotype.


Now I imply that racism and et al are good for business. I will prove this. Now not all businesses profit by this, only those whose aims are united with Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping.

Take the first stereotype "Mexicans are hard working". What sort of business can profit off of that, especially when referencing illegal aliens?

Well the average cost to employ a person legitimately is rather high. Taxes take from what that person earned to what they receive. Some taxes are hidden by making the employer pay them. Other problems include unemployment costs, various regulations on hours and healthcare and more, to potential formations of Unions.

All of those and more make it cost effective to hire an illegal alien who cannot complain about some issues with working conditions, who even if paid the same pre-tax is 90% of the cost, who cannot form a labor union, who will never file an OSHA report, who shall be easily fired where a normal worker might have severe protections... and so forth.

So there is a provable level to where this stereotype can be profitable for others to say, not withstanding political factors as well.

Then there is the United Negro College Fund. This group gets funds due to reverse racism. While the normal college funding systems (grants, scholarships. Loans, etc.) are supposed to be colorblind (or in fact are supposed to be biased for minorities) we have here a group established to help a common group (blacks) and no one else.

Now I am making some people mad... so time to talk about real racism for a second. There is no doubt real racism exists... I am sure I can be 'schooled' upon what racism some members of our community have suffered. I do not need sich schooling. I understand that such racism, while it is much reduced from what it was, still exists. Examples do also go all ways such as the two Black Panthers videotaped calling white people crackers. IT EXISTS-DO NOT TRY TO SAY I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE RACISM HERE. *Deep Breath*

Now some may say I was stereotyping in saying some anger would happen over my comment. No... there is proof this is beyond a sensitive topic in some regions, that some people express anger at percieved racism, and that there are those who would try for various reasons to misrepresent me and my views.

Next up is the entire process of Equal Opportunity and the Act named that. Statistics is an interesting line of math, at least to me.

Statistics can show some groups are under represented in some industries, and yet not provide a reason. Trucking is one such industry. How many females drive? It is certainly a low number compared to men. It may be as low as 1% female to 99% male. I doubt it is that low... but it is very low.

Why is it so low? I could take guesses, but even if educated to the topic, you just cannot get an equal proportion to work here without some severe imbalances.

There are also statistical regional imbalances. Arizona for instance has a lot higher Latino population than Eskimo population, while Alaska has a lot more Eskimos than Latinos. This humorous example is a little severe, but there is the point hidden under the humor. Some regions simply lack certain minorities or even so called minorities (White men, under the definition are also a minority) are nonexistant entirely! There are sections of Chicago where you would be hard pressed to find a white person living at. There is locations in Phoenix where you won't find a black person, and there are areas of nation you won't find Latinos living at.

So where am I going with this? Lawyers profit off of the stereotype that a statistical imbalance automatically equal racism. And they win this all the time.

Additionally under the EOA there is the problem of qualified labor pools. Sorry music majors, sorry drama doctorates, my apologies to those who got degrees in the arts... a job for a computer tech needs a degree that you do not have.

Sometimes local labor is influenced to get into directions contrary to the actual market conditions.. in some subsets of society this has happened a lot.

Sports benefit from deliberate seeming racism also. How many blacks play Basketball? How many Hockey? Only one problem... that would be a stereotype. Typically (statistics somewhat support this, based upon market identification) a black man will want to play Basketball rather than Hockey and while white guys play hockey, typically it is a certain subset that loves to play hockey.

So in actuality they are probably not being racist as a group, but in statistical representation they are according to a view as enforced by the EOA.

Then there is the likes of Reverened Al Sharpton. The man gets monies to support reverse racism policies.

But while we are here before we move on, there is other racist groups that profit on pure racism. There are businesses that hawk wares to the Aryan Nation, there is Latinos funding La Raza (Literally translated as 'The Race'), and let's not forgetthe Black Panthers.

Yes racism can be profitable.


Now unlike Al Sharpton who promotes racism... I shall offer a solution.

End anything that has a deliberate self bias. If you can replace black, white, Jew, Catholic, Muslim, Hispanic, Pole, Dane, Japanese with another word of some identified group, and change the meaning... then it is racist and should be treated as such. Also Equal Opportunity Acts should be abolished.


This is where I expect but's trying to validate reverse racism. Is reverse murder fine since it counters the first? Is reverse cheating on a spouse really ethical? What about reverse reverse racism? An evil remains an evil, a terrible wrong remains a terrible wrong... regardless of attempts to justify,


The next defense I wish to prevent is profiling, profiling ks not stereotyping, it is a statistics based approach to a situation. Statistics show the major danger to airliners is a 20's aged Middle Eastern Decent male. While other threats exist the average Senator does not represent a threat except to the budget for security at the airlines.





The thing we should hate the most is hate.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

Btw in the words of a Fox News guy (a bit altered here)

If you fail to post a reply then you are a facist racist xenophobe!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

*replies*

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

4 (edited by RisingDown 28-Jan-2012 16:18:39)

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

"Now I imply that racism and et al are good for business."


The Latin word "et" means and (or as well),
using "et al" the way you used it, gives a repetition of the word "and".
Please, if you are trying to look smart by using Latin phrases, do so correctly.
Otherwise just, do not use them as you'll look stupid.

Thank you.


Does this count as a reply?

Maar doodslaan deed hij niet, want tussen droom en daad,
Staan wetten in de weg en praktische bezwaren,
En ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren,
En die des avonds komt, wanneer men slapen gaat.

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

"Chinese Hans against other Chinese groups"

I would like an example of this...speak to anyone in China and they speak of pride over the ethnic diversity. So yeah, kinda need an example of this (through out some of those "statistics" you say make it ok).

"If you fail to post a reply then you are a facist racist xenophobe!"

Bahahahahahahahahaha...I guess I replied, but seriously? You really think I would fall into this catergory?

"Also Equal Opportunity Acts should be abolished."

And we go back to the days where minorities find it harder to integrate. Stereotypes then start to play back into people's decisions to hire (ie. "I do not want to hire any Mexicans because they are lazy"). Individual racism starts to play on decisions made throughout society. You would also see more groups like "United Negro College Fund" spring up in order to get more of these people real chances to have a chance in society.

"Additionally under the EOA there is the problem of qualified labor pools. Sorry music majors, sorry drama doctorates, my apologies to those who got degrees in the arts... a job for a computer tech needs a degree that you do not have."

I am pretty sure that an employer will look at qualifications, otherwise why even interview? Picking a candidate that is clearly NOT qualified or experienced in a field is different than providing equal oppurtunities. I doubt the EOA forces businesses to do otherwise (they also have a defence as to why they did not employ that person). But if you have 2 equally qualified people, do you really want personal prejudice to play any part of the decision making? Also, a lack of labour in a certain field could be one of oppurtunities, hence why such groups like "United Negro College Fund" are created to help encourage people to persue certain careers.

"Racism can be profitable"

Pretty sure this is why people had slaves...not really an insight into racism.

I also struggle to understand the purpose of your post? Do you support racist views in society? Oppose it? Or are trying to make some obscure point?

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

Your completely off on the facts.

1) colleges often select minorities with as low as 70% of the test score of nonminorites as students

2) Big employers like Walmart get periodically sued if the statistical edge changes, and are then forced to place people without the credentials in place

3) A fire department was testing for supervisors, and when not enough minorities applied for the promotions test a judge threw a requirement that a certain number be made supervisors anyways (since lost that case recently... thank God that judge was overturned)

4) other public agencies are enacting a hire a minority, train a minority (college and more) to fill positions when qualified candidates are available who need no training.

5) Yes the United Negro College fund gets shut down in my opening statement here

6) forced diversity never helped the Kansas school district (see thread on front page about schools)

7) you sir are a reverse racist.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

7) you sir are a reverse racist.

Well, I thought we were trying to move away from stereotypes and name calling *runs home crying*

See, this is actually what I dislike. I get your points, and I think that it may have gone too far, but when you start looking at history, many of these minorities were repressed (you do not deny this). This still creates social problems now (segregation in the past has lead to what you pointed out as ethnic dispersion now...ie. Harlem [which my brother saw and he said he didnt see a single caucasion on the street]). How do you break this? Do you go "well when you are as good as the rest of us, you can join in?" (kind of what you are advocating here), or do you try and curb this by offering incentives to study. You complained that minorities are underqualified, and then further complain about programs to encourage them to study.

African Americans (and I am focussing only on one group), have been oppresed for centuries, and this has caused social problems. Instead of taking responsibility for your history, you wish to continue to indirectly segregate by continuing the same cycle. What you want is for those qualified to fill these positions, and for everyone to be working to support themselves, and for everyone to follow their own dreams, yes? Or are you advocating racism to meet your own ends? If you want to move towards equality, then you have to break the cycle of oppression (which happened long before you were born). Do you think people's attitudes will still stay the same when they are receiving education, filling qualified jobs, and affording a decent lifestyle?

6) forced diversity never helped the Kansas school district (see thread on front page about schools)

This was simply throwing money at the schools, it was not a plan to integrate, but simply to provide the funds to create programs to integrate. The funds instead went to all students, and into holidays, swimming pools, etc (not exactly integration programs). This also highlights the social impacts from a younger age (that students are already feeling the effects of their heritage, so instead of trying to actually change this, you would rather just support the status quo?

5) Yes the United Negro College fund gets shut down in my opening statement here

And then you go back to complaining that African Americans are undereducated (1) colleges often select minorities with as low as 70% of the test score of nonminorites as students)...which is it?


I agree with your first 3 points to an extent (forcing companies to hire a certain percentage of ethnic minorities becomes harder and harder), but attitudes need to be curbed somehow, and if you have a better solution to change opinions I am all ears.

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

I disagree that racism has to do with religion and national heritage. Discrimination (which is also bad) is, but racism isn't.
I'll probably post some more after reading everything, but don't have the time atm.

NEE NAW NEE NAW

Primo

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

Be colorblind in everything

If a underqualified person is rejected based on the lack of qualifications then they will seek to get qualified.

Competition is important to. If you know that you do not have to try so hard because the government will give you leeway... well you don't try as hard as that person who knows you have the unfair advantage.


Be colorblind

That is the wrong statement, but it is close enough. For some whites hate gypsies who are white... but... the statement works.



When the tables were reversed, and prejudice went the other way, the Tuskagee airmen excelled. Now I do not advocate any racism, so do not read crap into that statement.

But it is clear those who get reverse prejudice do not strive.


End it


And end racism period



Oh and end favoritism of all sorts to bug that is harder

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

*replies @zarfs reply*

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

"Be colorblind in everything"

But that still doesn't change the fact that certain minorities have a disadvantage to start with...I guess it is not your problem so why would you care, but I would point to the Aborigines in Australia as a clear example. Nothing would ever change but the social problems continue to spiral...

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

12 (edited by V.Kemp 29-Jan-2012 12:15:00)

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

Wornstrum proposes that we can fix racism through racism. Kinda awkward.

He also presumes that only blacks have ever been oppressed in Amerika. If he's not claiming this, he's ridiculously ignorant of all of the other oppressed minorities which have more success than blacks today by an order of magnitude.

God forbid you attribute much of people's success or failures to their own culture and values. Your problem is you have to completely ignore facts to maintain your awkward position. You ignore the successes of native American tribes not receiving government handouts vs the failure of tribes on the government dole. You ignore the education and success rates of Asians and other formerly-oppressed minorities in America as compared to that of blacks (for example) of the same income level. You ignore astronomical illegitimacy rates and the links this has to crime and success in life.

Racists didn't spike the illegitimacy rate among blacks to 70%. Racists aren't holding back blacks while Asian and Middle Eastern immigrants work their asses off and achieve great success and education rates eclipsing that of blacks.

You're pretending that institutionalized racism can solve problems you won't even address, let alone understand. That's what you're supporting: treating people differently based upon the color of their skin. It's called "racism" and you're arguing for it here. It's offensive.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

Thank you Kemp for the very well written reply.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

Im sorry, what?

Firstly, let me clarify that I am not American, so forgive me for not understanding ALL of the ethnic minorities in the US.

So you feel that everyone is equal, and be merely stating that will improve some of the social problems...which I say won't happen. I fully support a system that has every gender/race/religion considered equal (I also find that you calling me racist rather laughable). You chose ignorance to the troubles of others simply because you would support a system that benefits the more fortunate.

For example, the racist attitudes towards Aboriginal Australians still continues today. We had our first Aboriginal politician, and upon being elected, received hate mail, death threats, and various forms of abuse simply because he is Aboriginal. The attitudes of society HAVE NOT changed, so for this certain group, they are denied many oppurtunities that allow them education/decent housing/jobs, simply because of the attitudes of the majority. Your answer however is to do nothing, which is what happens now, and let me tell you, all it caused was large portions of Aboriginals resorting to alcohol and drugs. They live in poor suburbs. You think the mentality within these minorities as well as the majority changes simply because you say everyone is equal?

Also, I guess the women fighting for voting rights were bad because they cared only for a certain group?

What about Martin Luther King?

I did not state that minorities deserve better rights than the rest, I support groups that seek to help disadvantaged people. But hey, I guess if they are disadvantaged it is their problem right?

"You complained that minorities are underqualified, and then further complain about programs to encourage them to study."

See, I did some digging, and the United Negro Fund is a private charity organisation.

"The United Negro College Fund (UNCF) is an American philanthropic organization that fundraises college tuition money for black students and general scholarship funds for 39 private historically black colleges and universities."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Negro_College_Fund)

You are saying that charity organisations are bad. Charity organisations need to focus on one group (in this case, a group that has a documented history of lower than average test scores) in order to help them. This is bad why? Also, shutting down a private fundraiser Flint? So all support comes from the government then?

"Wornstrum proposes that we can fix racism through racism."

That would also suggest that I think that certain races are better than others, something you have yet to prove.

"He also presumes that only blacks have ever been oppressed in Amerika. If he's not claiming this, he's ridiculously ignorant of all of the other oppressed minorities which have more success than blacks today by an order of magnitude."

I clearly stated I was only focusing on one group, do you really expect me to dig through all of the minorities?

"Racists didn't spike the illegitimacy rate among blacks to 70%."

Illegitimate or illiterate? Do you also think that this is ok?

Like I have said, I am coming from a culture that still oppresses certain groups, and has caused a vicious cycle. The only ways this opression stops is by helping the oppressed or changing the attitudes of society (which doesn't happen by saying they are equal).

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

In the United States the major force for racists to continue is ironically reverse racism.

I have seen to much proof of this.


You say Australia has not grown up.... well our minorities got elected and have stayed elected.

It sounds like Australia is early 1800s in regards to US politics.

Basing your nation as a guide to my nation is wrong.

Anyone who chooses to try can succeed in this nation.

There was a homeless black man... now a billionaire due to his drive to change his status.

Native Americans who choose to change their status often become millionaires with ease.

Last I looked most of those cute vietnamese gals are driven to suceed more than most.

Anyone can succeed in the United States if they try... why even Hellen Keller!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: The Profitable Business of Racism, Reverse Racism, and Stereotyping

"UK law draws a distinction between Equality of Provision and Equality of Outcome, particularly in respect to disability rights. The Disability Discrimination Act 1995 and the Equality Act 2010 make it clear that treating two people identically may not be sufficient to guarantee that they have been treated equally in law if the task, physical environment or service does not offer them equality of outcome. The law provides for disabled people to request the provision of 'reasonable adjustments' to ensure that they are able to access employment, services and the built environment with the same potential as non-disabled people."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_discrimination)

You recognise that certain groups are disadvantaged (ie. test scores...and I know you are going to argue that this is their doing, but really, if you want to make that claim you will need to show research into why this is the case), and then say that in order to be fair, they need to work harder...am pretty sure this is what the laws above are trying to make clear...call me racist if that truly makes you feel better (but since you don't actually know me, I find it hard to believe that you could come to a well informed conclusion about my opinions).

And if you are going to be systematic and thorough about this Flint, you would need to ban ALL charities (and not just the United Negro College Fund), since they are only helping a certain group.

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~