• Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The interwebz fights back

Sorry that post was directed at Chris who I know to have a degree as a law assistant or something of that nature.


As for China censoring... you play into all the peoples here fears with that statement. That is exactly what I would expect to lead to a civil war with 100 million dead... and pray every day it started sooner rather than later.

Even though it could cost as high as a billion dead, I still say my prayers for China to overthrow their government.



Now for the rest of your post. I have been a web developer, with roughly 30 sites developed for businesses. Now some I hos (in leased space)t, some I outsource the hosting, some they host themselves. There is your first problem. If you want me to shut one down go laugh a while. Once made I do not look at the site unless the client calls me.

I also do not look at emails (all autoforwarded when possible) pertaining to the site. In the last four years I have gone through six phone numbers (good luck contacting me, lol). Some of my customers change adresses on the site, but not the site registration.

Contacting people is not always workable.

Then there is government idiocy.

Our government had laws allowing this in the case of child porn. To take down 36 websites they killed 84,000 business websites. Collateral damage much?


Some law proffesors say SOPA/PIP even allow for any claim of a violation to require (under an abusive government) deletion of content, even if you were the author.

And anyone can make an anonymous report. What if I made a bot (I have made eggdrop bots beforem e.g. warbot) that made complaints for me, made it on every post in the IC Forum... there is not enough players able to help the mods clear that mess up in time to prevent closure. I just killed IC or IC deleted all of their forums.


Remember upon complaint burden of proof is the defendent... you are guilty until proven innocent.


Under existing law:

The FBI can arrest any American and imprison them for up to 20 years
The Digital Millenium Act allows for copyright holders to request sites holding copyrighted material be removed (which Google does in about 6 hours average, as Chris noted) with the person reporting required to sign a document that if they are lying will make them guilty of perjury.




Ron Wyden (whom I mostly detest) proposed that the International Trade Commission be given teeth to persue real facilitators of copyright theft (e.g. the torrent servers). His proposed law could reduce filesharing to 30% or less of current levels, and not negatively affect the internet or the honest people.




Remember though... this fails on a basic level. "Innocent before being proven guilty"

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The interwebz fights back

Actually I thought of a draconian way that would stop internet based theft.

Give everyone a million bit code (excessive, but secure) where it gets modified by the year/month/day/hour/minute of logging in. Further add 1024 bit encryption (excessive but secure).

This will ofc require a hardware unit for each person so they could have the code auto-entered for them.

Lose your key to the internet and you lose your right to upload or download from the internet, and you cannnot post information of any sort. You can only browse via web address.


When something is uploaded a note of the key is made, where the location uploaded was to, and so forth. Same forother user driven content updates. Downloading a note of the key, where the information came from occurs.


If there was proven, in court, theft of a copyright and the criminal cannot, or will not, make financial restitution plus penalties, they lose access to their key for life.

There are still ways to hack it, but given the idea technologists could work on that (perhaps a seperate verification via cellphone method?)


This is the best I can come up with after a decade of thinking on the subject.

Only... don't lose your key or you are locked out for life!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 2,383
  • Tag points: 3

Re: The interwebz fights back

only thing being, the amount of storage needed to add that key to EVERY piece of even temporarily stored information for a single user is prohibitive...

<@Nick> it always scares me when KT gets all dominatrixy
* I_like_pie is now known as pie|bbl
<@KT|afk> Look at him run!
<@Nick> if you tell him to slap you and call you mommy
<@Nick> i'm leaving and never coming back

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,808

Re: The interwebz fights back

> Walking Corpse wrote:

> only thing being, the amount of storage needed to add that key to EVERY piece of even temporarily stored information for a single user is prohibitive...


Yes, also the overhead on traffic too...a million bit passcode attached to every packet??? The......int.....net....is....d..................

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,808

Re: The interwebz fights back

"I still say my prayers for China to overthrow their government."

I do not!!! I think this is the WORST thing anyone could wish for!!! Why would you want this?!?! Firstly, I think the deaths of such an action would be high, furthermore the deaths AFTER this was to happen would be even higher...Think about the social/economical/politcal problems in the US and times that by 5 or 6 and you will realise that more people will go hungry, inflation would sore (forcing more people into poverty), the rich would get richer whilst the poor died (I guess this is one way to solve overpopulation)...At the moment, you are seeing economic reforms that are taking place PEACEFULLY! I would point you to an article by James Mann in regards to where this will lead. If you wish for political change, please wish for it peacefully (and also gradually to a point) to ensure the LEAST amount of pain/death on the Chinese. It is not their fault, nor should they actually suffer. By saying "overthrow your government" you are caring more about your own political opinion and thinking less about those who are repressed. Furthermore, I would also encourage you to go TO China to actually see the "repressed". I have only seen a small section of China, but in regards to censorship, it was not as bad as is advertised in Australia (I can actually see information regarding Tiananmen Square, and people here even know about what happened, so information is not always completely repressed, but hey, whatever isn't COMPLETELY anti-Chinese government is wrong)...I see it more and more a complete ANTI-CHINESE GOVERNMENT attitude from people who know less about the facts...

This comment/opinion of yours would end with lots of my personal friends here DEAD or imprisoned. This sort of action would also endanger MY life. And as stated above, will end negatively for MORE people than it would benefit. It is a selfish opinion (would help improve international relations/spreads your own ideals)...actually rather angry that you would even think this is GOOD! You have ignored people for trolling regarding war veterans Einstein because you took it personally...You CANNOT tell me you know the whole situation, so please keep your comments regarding deaths of millions/billions of Chinese to yourself! (Genocide of anyone is NOT an ok topic to talk about).

(Mann, James:

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 5,595
  • Tag points: 241

Re: The interwebz fights back

Not to mention, it's never ever ever a good idea to have nuclear weapons in a country that may feel there are more pressing matters (such as fighting a revolution) that need additional troops which could be pulled from... guarding the nuclear weapons!

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,808

Re: The interwebz fights back

> Zarf BeebleBrix wrote:

> Not to mention, it's never ever ever a good idea to have nuclear weapons in a country that may feel there are more pressing matters (such as fighting a revolution) that need additional troops which could be pulled from... guarding the nuclear weapons!


Doubt that would be a real concern, and get the feeling the point you are trying to make is that the Chinese would turn those weapons on their own citizens...doubt that would EVER happen...

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The interwebz fights back

Well it would be a daily code (first log in is code) and at 125kb it is really not to huge with how large some hard drives are getting... sigh, ok how about 8k bits... aka 1kb

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The interwebz fights back

As for a civil war in China.

Yes.


Tyranny must be struck down.

Your fooling yourself if economic reforms == political reforms.

They do not.

The old guard will pass the future to their children, despite their promises of change. It is always so in tyrannies.

Yes many would die. The tyrants there are much more bloodthirsty than King George was. But when the last of them gets a cerebral hemmorage due to lead poisoning then China will have its chance for true greatness, provided they make a Republic or a decent enough Democracy with serious checks and balances against the Government.

In the past I suffered depression, now I do not.

I won't advocate invasion... it is a way to strenghten a tyrants grip if not carried out fully. No... I advocate civil war for them. I expect it to for sure happen in my lifetime... thanks to the internet.

And I do care about those that would die. But since if I was at Concord and was standing on the bridge... that I would be willing to die for freedom... I can only wish that greatest of blessings upon others.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 5,595
  • Tag points: 241

Re: The interwebz fights back

> ~Wornstrum~ wrote:

> > Zarf BeebleBrix wrote:

> Not to mention, it's never ever ever a good idea to have nuclear weapons in a country that may feel there are more pressing matters (such as fighting a revolution) that need additional troops which could be pulled from... guarding the nuclear weapons!


Doubt that would be a real concern, and get the feeling the point you are trying to make is that the Chinese would turn those weapons on their own citizens...doubt that would EVER happen...


No... I'm trying to make it as China could be forced by any dire rebellion to reduce the protection of their nuclear weapons in order to sustain their country's existence... you know, the exact same fear perpetually mentioned regarding Pakistani nuclear weapons during their times of instability.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: The interwebz fights back

even if I agreed that Company X couldn't stay in business with these changes, or that Companies X Y and Z couldn't stay in business with these changes, that still doesn't mean Companies A B and C couldnt be started up doing just fine with those restrictions.  That's the thinking that got us TARP

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

37 Reply by ~Wornstrum~ (edited by ~Wornstrum~ 19-Jan-2012 17:43:08)

  • Posts: 1,808

Re: The interwebz fights back

[self edit]

Forget it...

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The interwebz fights back

Chris I won't agree to a person checking my every post, then authorizing it, up to days later.

That is detremental to the whole purpose of the internet

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,808

Re: The interwebz fights back

"That is detremental to the whole purpose of the internet"

It will no longer function as a communication method that will withstand an attack on any 1 line of communication (ie. an attack by a nuclear weapon)??? The purpose of the Internet is to provide a method of communication that automatically updates path selection. The "World Wide Web" that you are referring to talks about the content, and like any other method of forums (letters to the editor, debate on TV) should be monitored to ensure the content is LEGAL!

Firstly the Internet as you know it has evolved, and if changes occur to the way it operates, it will evolve to meet those changes. The fact that you are NOW using the excuse that it is detremental against its purpose is to actually acknowledge the adaptive nature of the Internet (which is the point Chris is making)...

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 2,383
  • Tag points: 3

Re: The interwebz fights back

> ~Wornstrum~ wrote:

> [self edit]

Forget it...


+1

<@Nick> it always scares me when KT gets all dominatrixy
* I_like_pie is now known as pie|bbl
<@KT|afk> Look at him run!
<@Nick> if you tell him to slap you and call you mommy
<@Nick> i'm leaving and never coming back

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The interwebz fights back

The internet is for the free flow of ideas (like a Chinese civil war), not for the regimentalized actions desired by the State (like N. Korea demonstrated with the death of Kim, insane, Ill Jun).

You never punish the innocent.

Put a law down flogging people who file share and file sharing in that nation will go away after you have flogged 1%. Make a law mandating nuclear war on any nation that does not flog it's file sharers, and actually use a nuke and not one nation will tolerate file sharing anymore.

Extreme? So is the stupid proposed laws.



Instead of a nuke, why not sanctions? Instead of flogging why not jail and/or fines?

This law is extremely imbalanced, and anyone defending it is an idiot. Anyone who looks at it should agree 'there are other ways'

When 95% of the informed people immeadiately say "oh hell no" regardless of their political affiliations you should always wonder if defending it is worthwhile.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 5,595
  • Tag points: 241

Re: The interwebz fights back

Question: Is it possible to combat file sharing by creating enough impediments, such as DRM, not to make it impossible to file share, but to make it expensive enough to outweigh the benefits of file sharing (i.e., if it costs me $20 in resources and effort to overcome DRM, it would be in my interest to simply not file share, even if I'm not caught)?

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The interwebz fights back

Well there will never be a 'cost effective barrier' per say.

However there can be efforts to reduce the number of skilled operators and to create a technological hurdle most of the population could not hope to surpass for the next 4 or so years.

You would need to make breaking the new hurdle of such a magnitude of a crime, with an insane bounty, to make sure few would want to try to break the hurdle, then you need to land on the few who do create breaks of the hurdle like Thor's hammer.

I truly mean go all out nasty.


1) If in our nation, arrest, trial for High Crime and Misdemeanor, throw the key away

2) if in another nation make them extradite or literally goto war over the lack of extradition... lock them up and throw the key away.

I mean a minimum of 40 years, no early release, no visitation, no books or entertainment devices...


It will suck for the first 6-7 who try to think that society must have access to everything... and suck if Norway decides it is worth dying as a nation over... but this is literally the only other way.


That and some on the other side... end increasing copyright lengths, even reduce it a bit. Disneyland and the moguls are to blame for some of this with the perpetual increases to copyrights.



Only if the punishment is so severe it scares the 1/3 of society that is involved in it, and only if the punishment actually happens, will the problem mostly (99%) disappear

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The interwebz fights back

Ththere is also the additional issues of

1) lack of ethics classes in Highschools
2) lack of follow the law classes in Highschools
3) Variable levels of corruption
a) You think the activity is legit in the eyes of the law.. like the site has authorization to play the video
b) You think the activity is for purposes of testing... and you think that if you like it you will buy it is legit
c) You feel it is revenge for over-pricing or for lack of access to the desired content (aka if a new game comes out for USA only)
d) you feel that you are doing no harm since you would not pay for the product anyhow
e) you feel the harm you did is minimal
f) your doing it for a true criminal feeling of a reason (aka to ruin a competitor)
g) And so forth
4) Different nations with different attitudes (you won't catch Russia arresting the top online criminals in their nation)
5) Lack of will even in nations to persue charges when the laws are strong (e.g. United States)
6) Juries who give in to the defense story when the defendent IS GUILTY (aka the sympasizor (sp? Imma tired) issue)
7) lack of technical means to track all the criminals down
8) problemss identifying who was actually at the keyboard (aka the daughter did it defense and the wifi network defense)
9) a criminal community that adjusts to new laws faster than the enforcers of the laws
10) illusions of social inequality
11) peer pressure problems

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The interwebz fights back

http://wyden.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/?id=5034df19-5b8e-4d45-9f1f-f2c0dd8f17d4

The OPEN Bill

I support that bill as a good first step (will eliminate the largest file sharers as they lose 100% of their assets).

What we need is a true one world law on IP. Including Patents, Copyrights, and Trademarks. Any nation not signing the agreement needs to have all other nations involved in the agreement end trade with them.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

46 Reply by Selur Ku (edited by Selur Ku 19-Jan-2012 21:11:17)

  • Posts: 1,355
  • Tag points: 54

Re: The interwebz fights back

"Put a law down flogging people who file share and file sharing in that nation will go away after you have flogged 1%. Make a law mandating nuclear war on any nation that does not flog it's file sharers, and actually use a nuke and not one nation will tolerate file sharing anymore."

Does anyone take this lunatic seriously?

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 5,595
  • Tag points: 241

Re: The interwebz fights back

Selur... do you think that is actually his advocacy?  hmm

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: The interwebz fights back

He clearly did not read the whole post.

I was comparing how extreme the bill was and then offered what you could do instead of floggings...

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,355
  • Tag points: 54

Re: The interwebz fights back

Okay I thought he was actually advocating that- after declaring that he would be happy to see hundreds of millions of chinese dead for his political ends it wouldn't have surprised me.

Sorry I was wrong.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 2,383
  • Tag points: 3

Re: The interwebz fights back

Einstein wrote:

-- However there can be efforts to reduce the number of skilled operators and to create a technological hurdle most of the population could not hope to surpass for the next 4 or so years.

so what, just stop letting people take comp. sci at university? ban all programming books? cause that's the only way to do what you propose here.  so to save copyright on stuff that the studios make billions on anyways, we slow our technological advance and slide back to your favourite era, the stone age?

<@Nick> it always scares me when KT gets all dominatrixy
* I_like_pie is now known as pie|bbl
<@KT|afk> Look at him run!
<@Nick> if you tell him to slap you and call you mommy
<@Nick> i'm leaving and never coming back

0 Dislike 0 Post Points