Topic: Obama to raise debt ceiling

Obama raises the debt ceiling -again - to waste even more money. Econ -miraculously- doesn't seem to recover a bit. I still don't understand why some people still defend his policies even if they are left-wing. Poor become poorer and rich get richer, econ only gets worse.

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

Can you tell me what precidents have raised the debt cealling last 10 yeas, and how many times each?

LORD HELP OREGON

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

Considering there is a debt crisis, I am going to go with HEAPS of times and by ALOT...

Also, I am not 100% of the working crisis, but in essence, the US need to lower spending or increase tax revenue? If this is the case, neither will ever be popular in the publics eye who will cry that they are missing out...I mean before the debt crisis hit in Europe, did anyone ever notice how riots/protests in Europe over public spending (one that does come to mind was the protests in France over raising the retirement age...also Australia's retirement age at that time was higher by almost 10 years, lol...lazy people)...so, if the public do like cuts/tax rises, why would a senator/whatever you call the guys in the US be happy about cutting costs when his voters will NOT be happy about it.

Now I hope I do not sound like Einstein with my rants, but this is one of the few problems I find with democracies (that in hard times it is harder to actually put something in place, where as an authoritarian government will just tell the people and crush any public resistance big_smile), I also feel that (at least in Australia's case) long term planning is shoddy at best...but not the time or place to bring this up (and I do not support authoritarian governments either, I feel that there can be some middle ground that keeps people happy most of the time whilst being able to make the hard decisions)...one again, sorry for the Einstein style rant against democracy tongue

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

"Can you tell me what precidents have raised the debt cealling last 10 yeas, and how many times each?"
yes but I could as well inform you there's wikipedia for this without spamming the forum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

@worn;
true about democracy, and I'm proly this forum's biggest advocator of it.

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

I prefer a Constitutional Republic.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

6 (edited by Relish the Troll King 14-Jan-2012 04:51:29)

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

We just need to kill off the welfare dependent, save a ton that way!  Just put welfare recipients into a big giant oven.

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

vote ron paul
problem solved

The inmates are running the asylum

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

The welfare dependent can be made effective. No we just need to put those who want to make people dependent upon government in ovens, then the problem is eternally solved wink

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

Looking at the data it seems to me that the only period in the last 30 years that didnt have frequest raising of the debt ceiling was the Clinton era

LORD HELP OREGON

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

"We just need to kill off the welfare dependent, save a ton that way!  Just put welfare recipients into a big giant oven."
you really achieve welfare by "saving" companies? Those companies would have been sold and rich people would have had no other choice but to stop their game. Obama spends most of his money on a small elite, not the poor!

"Looking at the data it seems to me that the only period in the last 30 years that didnt have frequest raising of the debt ceiling was the Clinton era"
The biggest increase is made in the Obama era by far. Its not the frequency that matters but the total increase that matters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USDebt.png

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

the US has to cut the defence budget, raise taxes and support the states to balance their budget, which helps the ruined communities. atm many states and cities are close to collapse. when the communities fail to offer the essential means for public life, a democracy cracks down in the long run.

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

Actually we need to reduce spending, reduce taxes, eliminate most regulations except the absolute essentials, and pay down the debt as we can.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

Well it depends, the reduced taxes would need to be propotionally smaller than the reduced spending, otherwise I think it would render the whole point redundant.

If the government is borrowing money to meet its expenditure obligations to its citizens, reducing taxes will force the government to borrow more in order to meet its obligations. Sure you can cut expenture as well, but reducing taxes would mean more budget cuts would be necessary to create a surplus.

I understand the concept that the public need to be kept happy, and raising taxes and cutting benefits just increases public unhappiness, but I do not think that it will help reduce foreign debt...

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

Well if you believe in Laffers math, and presume we are on the tax to high side, you could reduce taxes more than the reduction in spending, and get more total government taxes due to higher prosperity.


But hey... I mean it worked for Reagan... but how could Obama pull off a success?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

US budget today:
24% defence and veterans
23% health
20% pensions
33% other
=3,8 trillion $ expenses

income:
53% income tax
37% social fees
10% other
=2,2 trillion $

= -1,6 trillion $/year

main cost explosions 2000 to 2011 in billion $:

pensions 409 => 748 (+81%)
health 352 => 882 (+150%)
defence 341 => 910 (+167%)

cut funds for these three in an equal way to support the budget and rise taxes for the middle class, as the poor can't pay and the rich have too much lobby power.

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

1.3 trillion can be saved via cutting the other catagory.

.9 odd trillion via cutting health

Mix and match to suit.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

17 (edited by Little Paul 17-Jan-2012 18:01:06)

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

You can save 0.9 on health easily and still offer basic services to the poor. Where does all the other money go? Its wasted.

You can have a better defense even if you save some, if you cut the crap. You can send over 50% of the soldiers home from Europe to name one thing.

the 33% "other" I have already addressed.

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

like i tell old people, if they'd elected Wallace/Lemay we wouldn't have any of these problems

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

I agree we do not need to defend Europe.

Let them choose to fight the next Hitler early, or suffer again.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

Ye cuz the US is in Europe to supress the new hitler haha.

LORD HELP OREGON

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

What will these soldiers then do???

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: Obama to raise debt ceiling

> ~Wornstrum~ wrote:

> What will these soldiers then do???

Come back home and breed a new batch of draftees for WW3?

Words will always retain their power.  Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen: the enunciation of truth.