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Topic: Torture

I want to visit this.

Hot room? Pfft... my black Volvo 2 years ago, AC died, 115 degrees outside...

Cold room? Try throwing chains on an 18 wheeler in 0 degrees with a thirty mile an hour wind.

Uncomfortable bed? Homeless sleep on cement all the time.

Water and bread? I lived on Top Ramen for a whole month.

Music at odd hours? Clearly none of the ACLU has worked grave yard shift and lived in a multistory apartment...

Cramped cells? They have more room than the cab+sleeper of my Peterbilt.


Honestly I do not see this stuff as torture. Hell even waterboarding is weaksauce.

Wanna really mess with them? Give them food poisoning like I suffered the previous Friday... oh.. once a week. By the third week they will spill everything they know to avoid that fate repeating itself.

Worse? Mildly sedate them, put them in a dress and make up, and put them in a cell with a lifer.

Really rude? Tie them down and get a horny doberman to do carnal things to them as they watch on a wide screen tv of themselves getting owned.


None of this will kill them, none of it will leave permament physical scars (unless bubba literally rips them a new one, or breaks a few teeth for an accidental biting)


Some of this society puts up with anyways.


Some of this people seek out (I have it on good word that Primo gave Bubba practice for how to treat a terrorist to a good time).



So... what is torture, what is uncomfortable, and what is ordinary?



Can you draw a line?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: Torture

Can you draw a line?

I will not touch down on all of your points, but a clear difference is one is from choices you made (ie. to be a truck driver...if you find it torturous, then look for other work/conditions)...a person being tortured does not have the options to change the conditions he is living under....

Furthermore, since you are not being forced to live as you do, you do not consider the small place torturous, otherwise you WOULD change the circumstances. You often speak about the virtues of freedom, and then try and justify torture as ordinary? (I do know what it is like to be out in freezing temps whilst blowing a strong wind, it is not comfortable, but we are also wearing alot of clothes at the time and are not subject to it for severly long periods of time....as for the "heat" I am Australian and I happily wear a jumper and jeans in the middle of 44C heat, but that is my choice...if it was uncomfortable for me, I would change...torturees are just subjected to this to far more painful degrees)...I would also like for you to undertake waterboarding BEFORE you start talking about "weaksauce" and also talking about subjecting someone to being raped by a large dog is not only ILLEGAL in the US it is not natural...Maybe bullies should start to undertake this practice if it is normal (clearly referring back to the bully thread)...society would not accept this practice performed on its own citizens, it should subject others to it as well...

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: Torture

Do you think all homeless choose where they will sleep fully? Or that society forces them to certain locations?

Do you think I wish to comply with all the regulations that prohibit me from cooling myself in the summer heat, or do you think I am forced by threat of punishment by the Government to sweat more than I wish?

Do you think the family in San Fransisco should go cold, or should the government not ban the use of fireplaces for heat?

What of the use of bathrooms, should a person hold it because the government chooses which bathrooms in a public building is for the public and which are for employees only?


What about being told you cannot sleep in a safe place, despite being to tired to drive safely, by a police officer because a law or ordinance?


I can go on, but these examples should suffice.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: Torture

"I can go on, but these examples should suffice."

No, they don't suffice...

"What of the use of bathrooms, should a person hold it because the government chooses which bathrooms in a public building is for the public and which are for employees only?"

But there are bathrooms for the public?

"What about being told you cannot sleep in a safe place, despite being to tired to drive safely, by a police officer because a law or ordinance?"

Poor planning on your part, or do we then convert to a world where we all do what we want when we want without a damn regard to anyone else around us.

"Do you think all homeless choose where they will sleep fully? Or that society forces them to certain locations?"

I do not agree with segregation (both in the US, in places like Harlem, and in Australia)...as for homeless people, a lot have made their choices and because their choices involve hitting the bottle so much so that they can't afford rent does it make it forced by society? Also, if you want to start going down this path, are you agreeing that socialism would be better because it provides for these sorts of people?

Forced torture is just that, forced...these people are detained (often unlawfully) and endure ENDLESS torture using various means...

"Do you think the family in San Fransisco should go cold, or should the government not ban the use of fireplaces for heat?"

Didn't realise that the government controlled the weather? Also, are fireplaces the only source of heat? (and in Australia, fires are banned alot of the time and in many places because of the hazard it places on the surrounding areas...but I guess the high risk of fires should be ignored so long as someone who doesn't want to look at alternate heating sources is warm)...

"I can go on, but these examples should suffice."

No they do not suffice...and your complete disregard of the safety of fellow humans is APPAULING!!!! You should be ashamed of yourself!

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: Torture

I have been homeless. I lived in a car.

I could park somewhere... tired after a lot of work (I had a job, just expenses with issues was to high for me to save for a first, last, safety, and such)

Cops would run me out of some areas, sometimes they would tell me where to go (always a not so nice location/region) to sleep.

I was never a danger. I was not homeless from desire. I was not impeding others.



So your drunk argument fails right there.


A fireplace is a safe place to burn wood, paper, and cardboard. A fireplace is one with a chimney and they are very cost effective compared to alternatives. I grew up with one in the last two houses we lived in, and we used them a lot for heat, cooking, and even for hot water for tea and coffee.

A fire pit is outside and can be a hazard.

Telling people a responsible, safe, efficient means to heat is outlawed is tyranny, and can cause people to have cold nights for no reason.


If all the stalls are taken (btw I curse you to suffer this fate) by others and a line exists, and you have to go extremely badly... I leave it there.


Examples that some call torture, some call life, exist in huge numbers. I say give the terrorists a taste of life.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: Torture

it's alway's so much fun seeing the two of you argue

neither man nor machine can withstand the fury of winter

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Re: Torture

But noone is forcing these situations on you...your urge to go to the toilet, is from you drinking, and you having to wait is painful yes, but by no means inflicted upon you by others intentionally...

If you want to go for cost effective heating, insulation works wonders (back home we have no heaters at all, and as for heating water, solar hot water system). "they don't let me have 1 particular source of energy" is not the same as denying all sources of heat...seriously you can't see that???

And you think the "terrorists" lives were all fun and joy before then you are sorely delusional... Maybe I should subject you to the pain of rape because others are subject to it... If you think others deserve and should be subject to it because you suffered from it, it shows alot about your bitter attitudes...perhaps instead of wanting to subject others to torment, actually do something to change your society so others are not subject to these conditions also)...

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: Torture

Furthermore, do you think every one of your examples are even close to the same degree as what you have been subject to? You can leave your car for a walk, you can do things you enjoy, and you are not subject to this treatment constantly...

Seriously, blatantly arrogant to think it is justifiable to subject someone to this...

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: Torture

Also (and do not yell at me for bumping this thread) no response???

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: Torture

Bumping is ok... I sometimes put off a topic while thinking on it, then forget it.

Never will I complain about a bumped thread when the bump is for bringing my attention to an issue.


______________

Humans subject themselves to things, work subjects people to things, their regions subject them to things, their income subjects them to things, and the environment can go out of its way to subject people to things.

Let the terrorists experience these things so long as no lasting physical harm happens.

They chose to target innocents, not I. There are lines you do not cross.

Government employees are legit, soldiers legit, police legit (though not applicants), government property is legit, spies are legit, but that's it... that is the list of ok targets. Some grey targets exist... media for some nations is some of their spies... and ofc a group that is not national has no government but their equivalent is legit targets.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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11 Reply by Alundra (edited by Alundra 14-Jan-2012 02:26:59)

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Re: Torture

-_-'

Been dreaming, I've been waiting, To fly with those brave ponies
The Wonderbolts, their daring tricks, Spinning 'round and having kicks
Perform for crowds of thousands, They'll shower us with diamonds
The Wonderbolts will see me right here at the Gala!

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Re: Torture

Alundra the cold/heat/wet/waterboarding/music subject is deeply monitored for their health. Any risk factor is accounted for and monitored. The death of a terrorist who has real world knowledge means more lives lost. Let alone death would become a violation of Geneva Conventions.

No risks are allowed. While discomfortable, survival is guaranteed.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: Torture

its ok i opted out of getting involved since im against social groups/classes/tags/pretty much the whole idea of judging people, but i totally went against that in my post, and felt total bad about it tongue hence why i got rid of it.

Been dreaming, I've been waiting, To fly with those brave ponies
The Wonderbolts, their daring tricks, Spinning 'round and having kicks
Perform for crowds of thousands, They'll shower us with diamonds
The Wonderbolts will see me right here at the Gala!

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Re: Torture

"Bumping is ok... I sometimes put off a topic while thinking on it, then forget it.

Never will I complain about a bumped thread when the bump is for bringing my attention to an issue."

That is good to know smile


"Humans subject themselves to things, work subjects people to things, their regions subject them to things, their income subjects them to things, and the environment can go out of its way to subject people to things."

Yes, but a free man still has choices within these aspects. A free man can chose to find further employment, move to a different area, find a toilet elsewhere in the building (this one really made me lol)...a prisoner is tortured to no end, they cannot take steps to prevent it or change it.

"Let the terrorists experience these things so long as no lasting physical harm happens."

But long lasting mental harm is ok?

"They chose to target innocents, not I. There are lines you do not cross."

Agreed, I do not agree with their actions, nor do I dispute that punishment should be fitting, but torture is used to extract information from someone or as a means for the punisher to gain some pleasure. I think torture is a step in the wrong direction...


"Government employees are legit, soldiers legit, police legit (though not applicants), government property is legit, spies are legit, but that's it... that is the list of ok targets. Some grey targets exist... media for some nations is some of their spies... and ofc a group that is not national has no government but their equivalent is legit targets."

Ok, so all of the people currently in Guantanamo Bay were involved in targetting innocent civilians or US troops? What about the Iraqi's abused in prison in Iraq, what was their crime? Now the US does not support this treatment against its own citizens, just certain groups of people. Now I would like to know why the Taliban are being held and tortured? (I really want an answer to this one! and the answer is obvious tongue)

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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