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Topic: Aids

AIDS is not a single disease, but is in fact the result of an issue.

Auto Immune Deficiency Syndrome


This could result from


Bone Cancer

Bad Diet

Disease

Viruses

Blood Disorders

Mutations

And other means (such as chemotherapy)




AIDS spending is benefitting drug companies mostly.

This farce has gone on long enough. Let's instead identify the real issue and treat that!


Btw a funny thing about most of the 'medicines' used to treat AIDS... most destroy white immune cells "to help reduce the 'food' (paraphrasing) for the virus'.

The only tests available detect not the actual cause, but the result.

This is purely bad medicine.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
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Re: Aids

Thank you captain obvious! AIDS (which I would like to add is a syndrome, not a disease, they are 2 different words with delicate difference in meaning in medical terms) is the result of a virus called HIV (that you may or may not have heard of) that attacks the immune system by killing CD4 T-cells (a class of lymfocyt, specified white blood cells). These T-cells are required for the (late) response of the body to an infection: a lack of these opens the body up for all kinds of other diseases, such as infections (whether it be bacteria, viri, or fungi).
Anything that causes similar symptoms on the body as HIV (which is: low CD4 T-cell counts) may cause a disease pattern similar to AIDS.
Why do you want to destroy the 'food' of the HIV virus? So that you may combat the HIV virus on the short term. Of course, this, as well, opens up the body to all kinds of infections, as the HIV virus would. This type of therapy is often combined with reverse transcription inhibitors (retroviri, such as HIV, require retro transcription, the transformation of RNA to DNA, to be able to change the function of its host cells). Plus, the HIV virus is not removed entirely from the body, even when its supply of reproductive matterial (viri require host cells to reproduce) has shrunk. So yes, this type of combatting the disease is not quite an effective one.


However, does the fact that there is no effective way of treating aids mean that we should fight the companies who are trying to spend effort and resources in manufacturing working therapies against AIDS? Of course, farmaceutical companies are in it for the money and a lot of the invested money disappears into the pockets of corporate America (or any other country the company may be based in).
A solution would be to nationalize the farmaceutical companies to assert more influence and control their profit making capabilities. In this point in time, farmaceutical companies will only work on projects they see will profit them in the future; projects that are deemed not-profitable are not undertaken, whether it be because of the small size of a market (for rare diseases) or for the low wealth of the market (diseases that are primarily, if not exclusively, found in third world countries).
However I doubt you, being the Republican, would agree to nationalizing anything, and i see no other way to combat farmaceutical companies.

Maar doodslaan deed hij niet, want tussen droom en daad,
Staan wetten in de weg en praktische bezwaren,
En ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren,
En die des avonds komt, wanneer men slapen gaat.

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3 Reply by ~Wornstrum~ (edited by ~Wornstrum~ 10-Dec-2011 12:26:31)

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Re: Aids

Well, have done a fair bit of research on HIV and AIDS, and I think you misunderstand the specific use of the acronym AIDS and what constitutes and also contributing all auto-immune diseases as AIDS. They are not one and the same.

AIDS (acquired immunodeficiency syndrome) was used to describe a medical condition not widely understood in the 1980's from the end result of the HIV.

"Infection with HIV-1 is associated with a progressive decrease of the CD4+ T cell count and an increase in viral load, the level of HIV in the blood...When CD4+ T cell numbers decline below a critical level of 200 cells per

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: Aids

HIV is detected in 100% of the human population. However large amounts of HIV is not detected unless a person has an issue with their immune system.

Symptoms is not causation.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
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5 Reply by ~Wornstrum~ (edited by ~Wornstrum~ 10-Dec-2011 13:58:52)

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Re: Aids

If HIV was present the immune system WOULD have an issue, for reasons mentioned above.

Furthermore, how does your train of thought carry over to those who develop HIV after being exposed to contaminated sources of HIV (ie. those who have large amounts after sex, or pricked by a contaminated needle)?

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: Aids

not necesarily Wornstrum, some HIV+ people do not develop AIDS, and AIDS can develop at later ages in people who do develop it.

HIV even has a dormant stage in which the body seemingly recovers.


however HIV being detected in 100% of the human population? Source please?

Maar doodslaan deed hij niet, want tussen droom en daad,
Staan wetten in de weg en praktische bezwaren,
En ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren,
En die des avonds komt, wanneer men slapen gaat.

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Re: Aids

I am aware of that (honestly the last 6 weeks I have been losing sleep over fear of catching HIV, spent too much time researching symptoms, prognosis, medical research, history), and I also never once said AIDS in my second response to Einstein, and my original post was to describe what AIDS was, not that everyone with HIV develops AIDS (if my explanation was bad, I apologise)...I am using my example to dispute the claims that every person tests positive to HIV, but only in small amounts but the immune system remains in tact which is why they are declared HIV negative, but pointing out that the immune system should still be exactly the same following injection of a contaminated needle...I do not believe one second that everyone on Earth has HIV (which was my interpretation of Einstiens second post), otherwise these "evil" pharmacuetical companies would be peddling their medications on every person in the world.

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: Aids

HIV has never been detected in a human, all we can detect are the antibodies that are formed usually 3 months after infection of the virus occurs, the ONLY way to get AIDS is from loss of a certain percentage of your t-cells to the HIV virus.  AIDS is not caused by any other source. at all.  people believing what is in op is dangerous.  Source: My biochemistry degree with a specialization in microbiology.

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9 Reply by Justinian I (edited by Justinian I 11-Dec-2011 05:52:40)

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Re: Aids

lolz at HIV denial.

However, it's true we spend way more money on HIV "prevention" than is necessary. When I hook up with a woman, an HIV infection is the last thing I'm worried about. People these days have been indoctrinated to fear it way more than is statistically rational. The facts are that unprotected vaginal intercourse has less than a 1/1000 chance of infection, and only 1% of the US population is infected. Of that population, the majority are homosexual men and drug addicts. Really, you can put aside your fears of HIV infection when getting physical with your new middle class girlfriend you met in college class.

However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned with the possibility of other infections. You should definitely be concerned with HSV-2 and common bacterial STIs like Chlamydia.

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Re: Aids

umm, read "kicking the sacred cow" for my source on HIV

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
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Re: Aids

He quoted the father of modern cancer, who proved cancer was not a virus or disease. That famous doctor studied AIDS and HIV thoroughly.

The book was about quoting other famous men, all of whom were well established in their fields, many with nobel prizes and accreditations many scientists envy.

Your clearly the biased idiot since you discount a persons work without knowing the work at all. There is a few which go 'far outfield' in the various scientific portions... but the science behind each is also difficult to discount.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: Aids

I lol'd.

Fenix, don't. Just don't, lol. Its not worth your time.

I am sKoE
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command.

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Re: Aids

Einstein,

That does not count as a credible source. Relax, calm down. Think it over for a minute.

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Re: Aids

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duesberg_hypothesis

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Re: Aids

> Justinian I wrote:

> The facts are that unprotected vaginal intercourse has less than a 1/1000 chance of infection, and only 1% of the US population is infected. Of that population, the majority are homosexual men and drug addicts.


Since the highest rate of catching HIV is through sharing needles and sex, I would say that there are far too many people like you that still think that taking the risk by not using a condom (which isn't always effective, but does cut the odds down) is worth it. I seriously doubt a cure for HIV once it has been caught will ever be possible, so prevention is the key. With the above attitude towards HIV, I am all in support of people who catch HIV being denied the chance to infect others (banned from sex, harsher penalties for drug uses, etc).

Also there are a growing number of cases of Female -> Male transmissions, which (like Fenix said) now puts hetrosexuals along par with Homosexuals with HIV. If you want to look at the statistics, a larger portion of new cases of HIV detected in the US are within the African-American population. There are high-risk groups and acts that should be avoided, and sometimes you don't know a high-risk person without getting to know them really well first. I have instigated a new policy of sex, "if you won't get an STD check, I won't have sex with you" (it's a new policy, but has worked well for my friend in the past).

"oh and he's considered partially to blame for 330k aids related deaths in Africa"

Did he start the rumours that having sex with a virgin cures HIV?

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: Aids

"oh and he's considered partially to blame for 330k aids related deaths in Africa"

Did he start the rumours that having sex with  virgin cures HIV?

The exact details im not sure, but he was invited with a panel of "scientists" to some country in africa, i can get the name if you want, and "advised" the government to refuse hiv medication and testing, which they did, result was an additional 330k deaths over that course.

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17 Reply by Justinian I (edited by Justinian I 11-Dec-2011 23:31:22)

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Re: Aids

Worn,

Allow me to clarify my position. I fully support safe sex by using methods including condoms, regular STI testing, and monogamy. These methods are essential for preventing life-changing STIs that carry a practical risk of infection. Although they are also helpful for preventing an HIV infection, the risk of contracting HIV is negligible for the average person in the Western world.

I am not against being aware of and concerned about HIV. What I am against is the excessive public attention for HIV, sacrificing public awareness for STIs the average person has a real risk of facing. That is why you will often encounter Americans who are scared to death of HIV, but never heard of Genital Herpes, Chlamydia or HPV.

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Re: Aids

They usually have heard of Chlamydia, Genital Herpes, and HPV...as well as some other ones, but the difference here is that things like Chlamydia are easily cleared up with by medication...take some meds and the bacteria is gone...Genital Herpes and HPV are a bit nastier, but again not life threatening...HIV gets so much attention because it kills, so it is really risk management (higher stakes, lower chance vs lower stakes, higher chance)...also in my country, all the advertising about STI's is on Genital Herpes and Chlamydai/Gonnarea (however it is spelt)

"I fully support safe sex by using methods including condoms, regular STI testing, and monogamy."

"Never trying a relationship again, even a bed buddy one. Ever." (taken from http://www.imperialconflict.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=148428)

Without both parties getting tested before such arrangements, you still run the risk (things like condoms do not stop Genital herpes...lowers the chances, but not by alot). Also based on your comments in the other forum, I got the opinion that she may have slept with a few people (based on the agreeing that relationships are pointless, etc)...the only girls I know that are like that sleep with a new guy every weekend)...just sayin'...

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: Aids

Einstein, you make this thread yet continue to produce 0 information ... i have refrain from posting on this topic as i figured you never knew what you spoke of in the first place?

~ Cloud

"I Cannot Awake From This Nightmare As Long As You Exist..."

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Re: Aids

Flint, try more quality than quantity wink your topics are like playing dart: some good strikes and some hits on the guys next to the dartboard, causing more trouble than the benefits from the strikes

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Re: Aids

I am sorry I have lost my copy of the book.

However the arguments are searchable

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: Aids

> Einstein wrote:

> I am sorry I have lost my copy of the book.

However the arguments are searchable

"AIDS scientists and activists were dismayed at the president's behavior and responded with the Durban declaration, a document affirming that HIV causes AIDS, signed by over 5,000 scientists and physicians."

I mean seriously, it is only searchable because a few scientists who don't actually look at the facts continue to post comments on the internet (since peer-reviewed journals won't publish them because they are blantantly wrong). When you have an almost unanimous vote that HIV causes AIDS (Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome), and many of the leading scientists are either dead (from AIDS) or have changed their views:

"Joseph Sonnabend, who until the late 1990s regarded the issue of AIDS causation as unresolved, has reconsidered in light of the success of newer antiretroviral drugs, stating, 'The evidence now strongly supports a role for HIV

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: Aids

"I am sorry I have lost my copy of the book.

However the arguments are searchable"

Then search for them before making any claim, you post alot of threads without any sources, making them in my mind no better then spam, and the fact that you have yet made comment on any one elses sources or comments lead me to believe that you know you are incorrect. I accept your concession.

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Re: Aids

http://www.healtoronto.com/10reasons.html

My response. Finding it took 15 seconds. Reading it took a minute or two.


I never submit


Back off, I will take you on
Headstrong to take on anyone
I know that you are wrong
Headstrong, we're headstrong

Back off, I will take you on
Headstrong to take on anyone
I know that you are wrong
And this is where you do not belong!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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25 Reply by ~Wornstrum~ (edited by ~Wornstrum~ 14-Dec-2011 12:28:04)

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Re: Aids

"HIV is detected in 100% of the human population. However large amounts of HIV is not detected unless a person has an issue with their immune system."

"10 to 20% of AIDS patients have no HIV at all."

So a point you make is refuted in the evidence (not really referenced or proven...it just makes statemtns), but which are you trying to prove?

"Only tiny amounts of HIV, usually dormant, can be found in any AIDS patient."

"When a person tests "positive" to HIV, it means they carry antibodies to the virus. Which means that they have immunity. "

But I thought the antibody killed ALL of the virus in the body? That would what "immunity" would indicate...the fact of the matter is, the HIV virus replicates inside the body, infiltrating more and more cells as it replicates. The virus is eventually killed off, but not before it infilitrates cells and further replicates. Without treatment, this process is faster than with treatment (which from what I understand, is medication used to boost the bodies own response to kill off the virus.)

"Between 2006 and 2009 the annual rate of new AIDS diagnoses decreased slightly among both females and males."

So that AIDS is decreasing? Why is it when we focus on ways of protecting against HIV and introduce ways to maintain the spread of HIV (something which you claim is CAUSING AIDS), the AIDS rate decreases...interesting isn't it? You wanted to look at facts...

As far as gender demographics go in Africa and the US, I wonder if the figures took into account that different sexual practices exist, and would easily explain the difference (I mean did they look at the rate of condom sales in Africa, and compare it with condom use of homosexual males in the US?).

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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