Re: US should formally separate from the "other" West

> I agree. But according to a nation's own laws. Not international law. There shouldn't even be international law.

Nonsense.

I am sKoE
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command.

Re: US should formally separate from the "other" West

Nuremberg and Tokyo tribunals were obviously both cases of victor's justice.

Re: US should formally separate from the "other" West

War is a little different.

Laws are a police action.

Wars are a military action.

If you win a war against a nation, your laws apply to that nation so long as you occupy that nation and wish the laws to apply.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

29 (edited by ~Wornstrum~ 10-Dec-2011 14:26:05)

Re: US should formally separate from the "other" West

> Justinian I wrote:

> Nuremberg and Tokyo tribunals were obviously both cases of victor's justice.

Fine then, the Tribunals setup to prosecute perpertrators of the Rwanda massacres (noone got involved during the massacres, so there wasn't really a victor was there?)

"Nuremberg and Tokyo tribunals were obviously both cases of victor's justice."

Furthermore, as there is no global law enforcement agency, it relies on states with the power to bring those who have commited against against humanity to justice. So in a way you are correct only from the sense that the US helped win the war, why people like Saddam Hussein could also be executed, etc. Many claims against the US have been brought forward (as you yourself mentioned) but very little becomes of it because noone has the power to actually bring those responsible to justice (since Bush was never arrested, and also your understanding that the US is at the top of the mountain and should remain untouchable). If Germany or Tokyo still retained some sort of power, the tribunals would never happen, and the victor would not be able to seek "justice". In the examples given, both countries remained defenceless, and trials could be established. A perfect example of where a war "somewhat" ended without persecution would be the Korean War as it ended in a stalemate (and I am sure that someone is going to point at that it only ended in a ceasefire, but simply because talks don't progress towards a more stable peace, a peace still currently exists)

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: US should formally separate from the "other" West

America and Europe have put their facebook status to "it's complicated", citing creative differences

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Re: US should formally separate from the "other" West

the problem here is that both sides are right , but wrong at the same time.

human rights are a pain to at times as it can't allow you to do what is necessary for the country (but who decides what is right for a country) .at the same time human rights are a blessing for a country as well. it protects the people from the government.
look at camodja during the khmer ,there where a lot of poeple got killed just because they wore glasses and we're assumed to be scholars because of it.

and as saying that the US-A is the pitbull of europe is downright wrong .If i had a dog like the US-A i'd have it put down because it is far to aggressive.
in libya the US gave little troops , which is strange cause they advocated the participation of UN armed forces. as they did with Afghanistan and Irak, which let's face it is a purely US-A war. Europe had no real issue with either country and had nothing to gain by sending troops. essentially what this shows is that really europe is kinda the lap dog of the US-A and not the other way round.

now in all cases war does solve little but breed contempt and discussing such things really is pointless.

bear in mind justinian said the 75% of US-A population supports his idea of anti-cosmoplitanism. I really don't know what he means with that , but who believes a nations people who identify there own nations law foundation as a communist pamflet. which was as i believe the result of a poll an american did by asking them to read the declaration of independence.


and international law is rather neccesary but shouldn't be that tightly policed. how can you even. i mean saifal islam (khadaffi's son) should be prosecuted by international law rather the national law. because national law gets him killed and international law allows him to survive which for him would be the greater punishment .



but in all fairness that's just my crackpot opinion pay no heed to it

neither man nor machine can withstand the fury of winter

Re: US should formally separate from the "other" West

the idea of a union between the EU and US is bad, because the Euro- (core) EU (without GB) is cutting the budgets of its members. The times of budget depts are coming to an end. in the same way the core EU is growing together now. In perhaps 10 years the core EU may have developed in a federal state with a strong economy. Europe gains strong support around the world even without being a federal state. The climate conference in Durban showed a strong support of the EU by most of the small and poor nations. In the years to come that support will change into strong economical and ecological relations to the core EU. The people in the EU have a vision of a "fair and green" planet and invest billions in ecology and human rights. So the core EU is progressive.

in the opposite the US has a dept of 100% and no real intention to lower it, since the economy needs the federal money to survive. Even the republicans wouldn't be able to cut the budget without great rejection in the economy. So the US budget dept will rise for a long time. The US is a reactionary power, close to losing its top position as no. 1. Its conomy depends on energy inefficient industries or is only home of great companies that produce everything abroad in Asia (e. g. Apple). So it gathers other reactionary nations to count on like VR China, Japan and India.

The idea of a union with europe is not completely wrong. We can spare GB now. They need a new home, because Scotland and Wales will declare their independence in the next years.

Re: US should formally separate from the "other" West

"They need a new home, because Scotland and Wales will declare their independence in the next years."
Its so stupid but maybe they do.

Obama is doing what most EU nations did, your friends get rich, make debt. We, the voters, have the power to stop this.

Re: US should formally separate from the "other" West

@justinian:
"I once advocated a union between all Western nations. But I am now ambivalent because of idealistic Human rights activists in Europe. Seriously, wtf is their problem attempting to arrest Bush?"
Are you serious? A lot of people in US (or any other nation) want to trial or shoot Bush as well or Sarkozy or Merkel. Same goes for any person in power I suppose. Its not a valid argument against a union. US and EU share most values. I hope we'll notice it before its to late.