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Topic: Land of the Free...?

I don't like the looks of this...

http://www.tampabay.com/news/military/war/national-defense-authorization-act-spurs-uprising-from-left-and-right-on/1205269

Oh and here's some statistics on who stands where in the Senate

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2011-218


Thoughts anyone?



Also could someone tell me the difference between the Senate and Congress?  I'd use Wikipedia but that'd involve actual effort tongue

Words will always retain their power.  Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen: the enunciation of truth.

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2 Reply by The Great Eye (edited by Zarf BeebleBrix 08-Dec-2011 18:16:01)

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Re: Land of the Free...?

> DaveMacleod wrote:

> Also could someone tell me the difference between the Senate and Congress?  I'd use Wikipedia but that'd involve actual effort tongue



"Congress" is a general term referring to both houses of the US legislature (the Senate and House of Representatives)

The Senate is the upper house of the legislature, comprising 2 Senators from each state

And in case you were wondering, for reference, the House of Representatives is... well... the lower class of the legislature, comprising 435 Representatives (distributed among states based on population).



Both houses need to approve a bill in order for it to become law, so if either house stonewalls, for example, this bill in question, the bill's dead.

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Re: Land of the Free...?

Also, the Senate is forbidden to originate a spending bill.  All spending has to be proposed and passed in the House first.

The Senate alone confirms judges and officers of the Constitution, and by itself ratifies treaties.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
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Re: Land of the Free...?

> Zarf BeebleBrix wrote:

> > DaveMacleod wrote:

> Also could someone tell me the difference between the Senate and Congress?  I'd use Wikipedia but that'd involve actual effort tongue



"Congress" is a general term referring to both houses of the US legislature (the Senate and House of Representatives)

The Senate is the upper house of the legislature, comprising 2 Senators from each state

And in case you were wondering, for reference, the House of Representatives is... well... the lower class of the legislature, comprising 435 Representatives (distributed among states based on population).



Both houses need to approve a bill in order for it to become law, so if either house stonewalls, for example, this bill in question, the bill's dead.

Thanks, that clears things up.  I thought U.S. governance had 3 levels - the Senate, Congress and House of Reps, not necessarily in that order.

Words will always retain their power.  Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen: the enunciation of truth.

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Re: Land of the Free...?

Anyone from the States heard about this?  Anyone got any views?

Words will always retain their power.  Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen: the enunciation of truth.

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Re: Land of the Free...?

It's one of those bills intended to provoke people.

Sometimes, a legislator will propose an outrageous bill he/she knows will gain no support as a way to draw attention to a larger issue. It's kind of like satire.

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Re: Land of the Free...?

to your topic question.

America hasn't been the land of the free for a long long time. it's just a title that has no meaning. sure Americans are more free then say chinese or such but if you compare the choices/freedoms you get to make to another western country you'll have to conclude that Americans are all but free when it comes to important choices.


the funny thing about this is: when Obama was running for president his opponent called him a socialist/nazi/communist and whatnot.

this bill which is clearly a way to circumvent the Democracy and actually reminds a bit of communism( check berlin before the fall of the wall) but there's not nearly as much resistance or media attention.

so it's a strange country. where forced medical insurance is a pure evil thing associated with dictators and tirans, whilst circumventing one of the most basic rights( right to defend yourself whilst being accused of something) is merely a minor headline in some newspapers/newsfeeds.

if the people targeted by these laws were 100% certain terrorists I'd be able to live with it.
but since America loves putting all muslims in the same box and also has a large government which always leads to corruption on a large scale( more people to bribe means there's always one willing to take the bribe) I doubt even 50% of victims of this measure would actually ever pose a threat to America/ be a terrorist


so America land of the free? you can keep the title and the statue( originally made for egypt) but no one should take it seriously anymore and all it does to me is make me chuckle.

and since most americans still believ this: think about the power that one sentence holds. by letting the american people cling to that sentence right next to the "american dream" high ups are succeeding in slowly turning America into a place where the government has totaliterian control eventually and rich people get to live on the tax-paying backs of the poor and middle class. the pen is mightier then the sword indeed.

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Re: Land of the Free...?

It's a serious bill and may pass. 

I believe the ban on bills of attainder in Article I, and the 5th Amendment guarantee of due process prohibit the Congress from enacting a law that says "Joe Blow from Cocomo is a terrorist, an Al-Qaeda supporter and he shall be confined until such time as the Congress sees fit to release him."

That being true, Congress cannot delegate the power to make such findings to the President through a Defense Authorization Act.

Congress can prescribe lengthy imprisonment for the crime of being an Al Qaeda supporter; but the Constitution guarantees a judicial process before any person can be subjected to that punishment.

All of the practical problems arising from prosecuting Al Qaeda in our courts arise from invented procedural rules imposed by the courts, and those procedural rules should be hit head on by the government to make upholding the Constitution practicable.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Land of the Free...?

The Federal government is relatively clean. It's the local governments where you find the most corruption. The governments less corrupt than the US Federal government number very few. They include Canada, New Zealand, and the Nordic countries.

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Re: Land of the Free...?

Justinian I lol'd

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
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