Topic: Playing games, could we really be war criminals?

Ok, so I was reading the news today (I don't pay to much attention to it, but is good to keep up-to-date with things that are going on back home), and I came across an article that claims the Red Cross is looking into computer games under International Humanitarian Law (IHL). Needless to say, alot of gamers nerd-raged in the comments section, but thought it might be a good topic for some spirited debate.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/gaming/six-hundred-million-gamers-could-be-war-criminals-red-cross-says/

So, this issue has many parts to it, not just the legality factor:

1) Why would the Red Cross waste funds, dedicating time and effort to explore claims that computer games are breaking IHL?

2) Do computer games actually break IHL?

3) What will happen if they decide that they do break IHL?

4) (THIS I DO NOT WANT TO FOCUS ON BECAUSE THIS JUST LEADS WAY OFF TOPIC, SO PLEASE DO NOT TALK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ASPECT!) Do violant computer games have harmful side affects? (It really is irrelevant, and this topic is all about the legality of the issue, not to much on the computer games themselves!)

So I will begin my own point of view:

1) Recent events show that warfare can, and is, being conducted in cyber space (The recent attacks on Iranian Nuclear Power Plants, claims of Chinese cyber attacks on US companies, etc). By trying to use existing laws to govern cyber space, they are setting a precidence that can then spark new laws to govern cyber warfare. The idea is not to punish gamers (nor would it really lead to that, will discuss this later) but to set precidence to setup cyberwarfare rules.

2) To cover this, we have to actually look at the Rome Statute. (http://untreaty.un.org/cod/icc/statute/romefra.htm):

The Rome Statute was created to establish a body that has the jurisdiction to trial and convict those in breach of certain laws. Individuals, not states, stand before the ICC, so individual gamers could be summoned before the ICC. If it was deemed that computer games breached IHL then it would be here that perpetrators would be convicted). The Rome statute looks at the following laws:
    (a)     The crime of genocide;
    (b)     Crimes against humanity;
    (c)     War crimes;
    (d)     The crime of aggression.

The crime of genecide:
- From the top of my head, I am not aware of any game that has breached any of the laws set out here.

Crimes against humanity/War crimes/The crime of aggression:
- If this does extend to the fantasy world, then certain computer games places the user in a position where they commit numerous breaches of these crimes.

3) Nothing will happen to people in breach of IHL. Many nations have yet to fully ratify the Rome Statute, and without ratification, that nation is not subject to the laws bound within. Nations like the US cannot be brought before the ICC for this vary reason. Currently there is no independant global force that is capable of bringing those summoned before the ICC to stand trial, and it relies on soveriegn nations to achieve this outcome. So which soveriegn nation would subject its own population to stand trial at the ICC? It would require an opposing nation to actually bring suspects to stand trial. If we have a look at some of the trials for WW2 crimes, many nations denied extradition orders to harbour people from WW2 charged with war crimes, and the same thing would apply under the current system. Short answer, noone would actually be brought against the ICC solely for playing a computer game.

What are others opinions...

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: Playing games, could we really be war criminals?

Another effort at social engineering.

A blatant, bad one.

I say the Red Cross needs to lose it's not for profit status for this blatant attempt at a political darwinism activity.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Playing games, could we really be war criminals?

> Einstein wrote:

> Another effort at social engineering.

A blatant, bad one.

I say the Red Cross needs to lose it's not for profit status for this blatant attempt at a political darwinism activity.


I fail to see how they should lose their not for profit status...also, how is this social engineering?

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: Playing games, could we really be war criminals?

1) As most charitable organisations the Red Cross needs donations. The broader the activities the broader the donations. (Violent) computer games are a good target. Many people 40+ have no real idea of computer games. What they do not understand, they condemn. So these groups may donate for those activities of a great organization like the Red Cross, especially before christmans.

2) No, this is no war and nobody gets hurt from an "head shut" ingame.

3) For a few days the media in some nations may panic and than the economy will tell of the great market of video games. The debate will come to an end fast. But in these few days many people may donate for the Red Cross.

4) Only time consuming.

5 (edited by [TI] Primo 08-Dec-2011 10:06:03)

Re: Playing games, could we really be war criminals?

The Red Cross can go [help] itself.

Je maintiendrai

Re: Playing games, could we really be war criminals?

GENEVA