Topic: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

I had a thought the other day, one that would never ever happen but would surely be a big vote winner.

First some context...

Lately around my area there has been a lot of debate about tax cuts and how much could be afforded. The current centre left government has passed moderate cuts leading up to the election later this year, whilst the centre right opposition has of course come out and said they would cut taxes more. When asked where they would find the money, given the government claimed there was none, or if they thought there was more money somewhere, the centre right replied that they would cut civil servant jobs (through natural attrition.) This seems a bit silly when we are in an economic downturn and reducing jobs will just mean higher unemployment, even if it is through natural attrition... 10,000 less jobs is still 10,000 less jobs... but that is my socialist side coming out.

Anyway it made me think, the one place we could cut costs would be the salaries of said politicians, reduce their perks and stuff and there is sure to be a few extra dollars for the rest of us, or maybe have more money for some social programs or funding grants for businesses or something. Then I thought, why not scrap politicians salaries entirely, give the money back as tax cuts to voters, and force the political parties to fund their politicians via donations. I realise that there are some issues with this, mostly the fact that therefore politicians would have to spend more time raising money and thus less time running the country, however the members of the political party in that area could, and should, shoulder the burden of fund raising.

Also I might point out that this would be only elected ministers of parliament not the civil service or other government workers. Thus the politician would be an employee of his party and/or electorate.

Anyway I was wondering if anyone had any other problems or issues they could see with this scheme, maybe it is how it works in your neck of the woods, if so does it work?

All in all I think I will add it to the growing list of my system of government...

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

Bad idea.

Scratch that.  Most horrible idea ever!


At that point, you would literally put the party in the candidate's pockets.  The party could change a candidate's salary based on his or her policies, making sure that all people who vote for individuals inherently vote disingenuously.  You could only vote for parties instead, which entrenches the government to its old policies.

Make Eyes Great Again!

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Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

It's a legal way of bribing politicians, is what I think Zarf is saying. tongue

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

That was much more simple than what I said.  smile

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

Even if people could donate straight to the member elected in their electorate, giving the people a way of letting members know their feelings without having to wait 4 years to be able to voice it?

It may also be a difference in political systems between the US and here...

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

Sadly over here the idea is being developed that donations are de facto corruption. I say sadly because that's one sure way for voters to shape the choices that appear on the ballot to be voted on. If you can fund Mr Right better than Mr Wrong during the primaries, mr right will be the nominee of the party in the election.

Your idea Fool makes too much sense to be tolerated. If the pols ever accept they're actually the least necessary part of the civil service they'd have what we call a "[poop]fit"
If America shrank the House of Representatives by half and cut the Senate to 1 person for each state it would cost half what it does and run or not run just as well. But they would sooner fire every licensed professional on the federal payroll than admit it.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

it is a horrible idea; not only would it invite and even institutionalise corruption, it would also handicap independent candidates and small parties further

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8 (edited by Little Paul 06-Jun-2008 12:02:43)

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

letting parties pay would bring forth party politics. One should vote persons, not parties. Else you only have 2 real options.

*edit*
ok I just noticed zarf said it already

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

Even if the constituency also had the option of funding a person directly?

Yes it will possibly raise corruption, where corruption is donating money to a politician for them to act in your favour, something that happens anyway... Party donations at election times?

Also people standing now never run on individual platforms, but always party ones, maybe with a little tweaking here and there to meet the needs of their electorate. However with direct funding someone could theoretically rise up, be an independent and gain the support and thus the donations of an electorate and freeze out the other parties who would have to either use money from other areas to fund a campaign or write that electorate off.

Maybe to make it more complicated, the money currently being used to pay politicians is divided by the number of citizens on the electoral role and each person gets that money put aside and given a ticket that allows them to control who that money goes too. They then can choose which candidate or party to fund and how much of it goes to who. Maybe people could choose to hand over a weeks worth at a time, or a months, or a years or whatever...

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

"Even if the constituency also had the option of funding a person directly?

Yes it will possibly raise corruption, where corruption is donating money to a politician for them to act in your favour, something that happens anyway... Party donations at election times?

Also people standing now never run on individual platforms, but always party ones, maybe with a little tweaking here and there to meet the needs of their electorate. However with direct funding someone could theoretically rise up, be an independent and gain the support and thus the donations of an electorate and freeze out the other parties who would have to either use money from other areas to fund a campaign or write that electorate off.

Maybe to make it more complicated, the money currently being used to pay politicians is divided by the number of citizens on the electoral role and each person gets that money put aside and given a ticket that allows them to control who that money goes too. They then can choose which candidate or party to fund and how much of it goes to who. Maybe people could choose to hand over a weeks worth at a time, or a months, or a years or whatever..."

Politicians in USA already earn to much.

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

I think I can quote former Sen Alphonse D'Amato on that point

"Shut up. Shut up. They earn every penny. They're the best in the world. They're a bargain. Shut up."

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

I think politicians are paid far too much and have far too many perks and can claim scandalous amounts as "expenses", but surely this kind of thing would mean that politicians would be forced to do exactly what the party donors said, otherwise they do not get paid! Ultimately the most important donors will be the people or organisations which donate more money, which in turn will mean rich people and companies who are willing to donate to political parties will have greater power. Politicians pay should be reduced but should come out of tax payers money so that they don't have any conflicts of interest when voting on something which may affect party donors. I would actually be inclined to move away from the need for party donations at all, and have campaign costs come out of tax money too. That way, there can be no corruption accusations or suspicious donations such as the "cash for honours" scandals which we have been having in the UK. It can also mean that campaign costs can be limited to something sensible, say

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

Politicians should have high salaries or at least salaries which reflect what they would earn in a similar corporate position. That's if you want to attract good people to the job. If you pay peanuts you don't have a right to complain if you get monkeys.

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

How about the concept (horribly complicated and unworkable as it is) of giving each citizen their share of the MPs salary and allowing them to distribute it as they see fit. This takes away the bad part of the scheme where people only listen to the rich.

The concept of the politicians having to do what their constituents want is really what I am going with here, so yes for a set definition it is sanctioned corruption, esp "where corruption is donating money to a politician for them to act in your favour." As that is sort of a good thing in my mind, or at least the flip side it, having a politician act in your favour because you control his purse strings. How honest would politicians become if their every action would have an immediate consequence, no more once every [insert appropriate number] years will we get random promises that may or may not play out, and for us to have no power to act on the failed promises till that time period is over, which is generally long enough for every transgression to be forgotten, except those done in election year.

It seems the only thing between my scheme and my dream is the fact that rich people get more of a say.... so limit the amount you can donate to a person? Election year campaigns could still work differently, maybe, or not... but giving people power back into their own hands to force a politician to act as they should seems good in my book and there must be a way to make it work...

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

Youfool:
"How about the concept (horribly complicated and unworkable as it is) of giving each citizen their share of the MPs salary and allowing them to distribute it as they see fit. This takes away the bad part of the scheme where people only listen to the rich."
ok but as you said, its unworkable. Ever considered the cost and corruption it would bring forth?

"How honest would politicians become if their every action would have an immediate consequence, "
Or how dishonest when they have to make an impopular decision. Or a decision wich pays itself back in 4 years.

16 (edited by Little Paul 07-Jun-2008 12:31:14)

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

Its a good thinking excercise fool but unworkable. Maybe its a coincidence but I see you moving towards a direct democracy with every step.(correct me if I'm wrong) Maybe one day it would be affordable to have a system that comes close to it but I think not right now. I don't deny the huge benefits.

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

LP: I am actually working towards a workable anarchy... one where people have been educated to realise they can do everything the government does, incl. law and order. So what I am looking for is small steps in the right direction.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: 'right wing' thoughts from a 'left wing' poster? Never!

Fool, who's going to do the crappy low paying jobs like cleaning if they are all smart?

Not many people know this, but I own the first radio in Springfield. Not much on the air then, just Edison reciting the alphabet over and over. "A" he'd say; then "B." "C" would usually follow...