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Topic: Oppo Research: Euro Medical

I am, as a Brit would say it, from across the pond. I also suffer a lack of language diversity.

So I seek outside input.


What is seen as the best medical programs in Europe? Which is (modern wise) worst? How much of their gdp is spent on the program? What demographics stand out? What is their population? What other relevent information is there?


I am sorta looking for a per need European Oppo research person. This part is a volunteer part with me screening for a potential employee. The purpose here is to contrast State level health care against European healthcare. I dunno if this basic info will be enough, but it is worth examining.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
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2 Reply by RisingDown (edited by RisingDown 19-Nov-2011 15:37:48)

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Re: Oppo Research: Euro Medical

If you're talking national healthcare programs, I'd say Scandinavian (for instance Denmark) & Dutch. I've heard Denmark has decent healthcare and the I live in the Netherlands myself

"Denmark spends 9.8% of GDP on healthcare. The life expectancy in Denmark is 78.6 years. There is 1 doctor for every 294 persons in Denmark.[1]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Denmark

"In 2006 bedroegen de uitgaven aan gezondheidszorg in ons land 8,9 procent van het bruto binnenlands product (bbp)."
http://www.cbs.nl/nl-NL/menu/themas/gezondheid-welzijn/publicaties/artikelen/archief/2009/2009-2901-wm.htm
Translated: In 2006 the expenses on healthcare in our country [the netherlands] were 8.9% of the GDP.

Interesting graphs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Total_health_expenditure_as_a_Percentage_of_GDP_(2005-2008).JPG
http://www.cbs.nl/NR/rdonlyres/BE2F1DD9-AD82-4796-9126-19AFA8E4FEBC/0/2901g1.gif


although i doubt you as a Republican Conservative would like to use these "socialist"countries as examples for reforms wink

Maar doodslaan deed hij niet, want tussen droom en daad,
Staan wetten in de weg en praktische bezwaren,
En ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren,
En die des avonds komt, wanneer men slapen gaat.

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Re: Oppo Research: Euro Medical

I will be using this data to oppose the national plan and promote that if States want a balanced healthcare they might look as to why Europe is way more cost effective

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: Oppo Research: Euro Medical

At Obamacare costing 1.5 trillion a year
Medicare is 500 billion a year
My preliminary research indicates a possiblle 1 trillion of private insurance and State level program healthcare.

Therefore we spend now, with Obamacar, 3 trillion a year.

Our GDP is 14.58 trillion. This means we spend 20% of our GDP on healthcare now.



However this figure will most assuredly rise.

Obamacare for instance uses fuzzy math to look cheaper. It assumes for instance current prices on medical hardware, but also lays a heavy tax on the same assuming this tax will help pay medical costs....

It works rather opposite however. Instead of gaining forty cents on every dollar as well as keeping the same price, you still have exactly the same dollar in cost, only more accounting is needed to 'pay the tax' which will assuredly raise prices.... pure insanity.

To think we are spending twice as much to get half as much...

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: Oppo Research: Euro Medical

One idea comes to mind.

Some things cost more by far than others. Yet some things happen by far more than others (heart disease)

It should be possible to insure the most common low cost issues with a low deductible low copay, and the rest with a seperate high deductible policy. And this could keep the total costs much lower than currently. Add in tort reform and you could feasibly reduce our costs to 9% and maintain our extraordinary services.

I of course want private insurance with no preveting me from cross State purchasing.... but some States could use this as a socialism model for State level universal healthcare....

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: Oppo Research: Euro Medical

> Einstein wrote:

> At Obamacare costing 1.5 trillion a year

Huh???  Source needed.

>To think we are spending twice as much to get half as much...

That's the way it's been for years.  Would be much cheaper to adopt a European-style healthcare system than to keep our current for-profit mess.

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Re: Oppo Research: Euro Medical

If you took the profit from healthcare in the US it would pay for four days.

If you took the fraud out of Medicare it would pay for two weeks to a month.

If you took out the useless regulations it would drop costs by half.

A free market system with no mandates, no taxes on healthcare,  and real full on competition would probably cost 5% of the GDP while being faster, more caring, and more effective than any socialist run program

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: Oppo Research: Euro Medical

(almost) all european countries run a far more "socialist" health care system than the USA, so how do you explain making the american system less "socialist" rather than more, when European (more "socialist") countries provide better healthcare at lower costs?

Doesn't this mean the "socialist" healthcare system is more efficient? Are you trying to make your healthcare system less efficient by de-"socializing" it?

Maar doodslaan deed hij niet, want tussen droom en daad,
Staan wetten in de weg en praktische bezwaren,
En ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren,
En die des avonds komt, wanneer men slapen gaat.

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Re: Oppo Research: Euro Medical

No, because socialized health care is a big business approach, less innovation, less customer service, less competition, and rigid structures.


An example of an effective free market idea is to make X-Rays a simple course and allow anyone to take the 'photo'. This process can be made so even the lowest common denominator in a highly educated staff can run it.

Another would be to allow nurses with excessive training and skills (some here have 8+ years education prior to working, then on going education) to treat lesser issues entirely on their own as well as allowing them to prescribe some common medications.

There is plenty of room in a free market for innovation, and competition drives innovation.

The Prescription market here is a primary example I use frequently of free market ideals driving costs down, access up, quality up, innovation up, and errors down. Not the pharmaceutical side, the pharmacy side.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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10 Reply by SavingHawaii (edited by SavingHawaii 19-Nov-2011 23:19:19)

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Re: Oppo Research: Euro Medical

> Einstein wrote:

> If you took the profit from healthcare in the US it would pay for four days.

If you took the fraud out of Medicare it would pay for two weeks to a month.

If you took out the useless regulations it would drop costs by half.

A free market system with no mandates, no taxes on healthcare,  and real full on competition would probably cost 5% of the GDP while being faster, more caring, and more effective than any socialist run program

-----

Flint, I still really want to know where you got "Obamacare costing 1.5 trillion a year".

Please back up your claims!

As for the rest:

1. Get rid of government.
2. ???
3. PROFIT!!!

Seriously.  We need better arguments than "magical things will happen and we'll all become happy and rich and prosperous".  There's plenty of periods in human history, including American history, where society pretty closely resembled what you advocate.  They weren't good times.  The late 19th century was particularly ugly and its reality for most of the population is a large part of why Americans rejected your ideology nearly a century ago.

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Re: Oppo Research: Euro Medical

> Einstein wrote:

>No, because socialized health care is a big business approach, less innovation, less
>customer service, less competition, and rigid structures.

And yet in the real world, socialized health systems have proven to be as innovative as private ones, while providing better services to the general public.  It's nice to say, "socialism = bad" therefore "socialized health care = bad", but it's actually a specific industry where socialism has worked pretty dang well throughout the first world.  In the first world, the only places that have dysfunctional and abhorrently expensive health care are the handful that haven't taken cues from everybody else's success.

>An example of an effective free market idea is to make X-Rays a simple course and
>allow anyone to take the 'photo'. This process can be made so even the lowest common
>denominator in a highly educated staff can run it.

So the truck driver is now telling us that medicine is easy and "even the lowest common denominator" can do it.  FWIW, these positions quite frequently are performed by techs with much lower wages and training than the general hospital staff as is, so I don't see how your proposal would actually change anything.

>Another would be to allow nurses with excessive training and skills (some here have
>8+ years education prior to working, then on going education) to treat lesser issues
>entirely on their own as well as allowing them to prescribe some common medications.

They already do that.  NPs (Nurse Practitioners) are quite common nowadays.

>There is plenty of room in a free market for innovation, and competition drives innovation.

And yet we pay twice for our healthcare what those commies in Yurup do and we get less for it.  Talk about free market innovation!

The only thing they're innovating is how to rip us off.

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