Re: So a pregnant teenager, an elderly woman, and a priest...

> Einstein wrote:

> The problem here is that there is so much significant evidence the protesters
>have planned, are implementing, and will plan severe acts of violence that the
>police cannot use standard force protocols.

What evidence?  I've been involved with my local Occupy movement.  There are a few idiots who've suggested that nonviolent demonstration isn't enough.  What's happened to those people?  They've been completely ostracized and run out of the group.  They're not welcome here.  What "severe acts of violence" are being "planned" or "implemented"?  This is completely at odds with the facts.

>Every police officer fears permament injury. Your protesters are trying to do
>such. This creates issues. And while the leftist controlled media does not report
>such, the police share intel on such extremely well.

Look at what is actually happening.  Davis: Police attack nonviolent protestors sitting on the ground who endured brutal pepper spray and showed much greater discipline than the police officers did.  Berkeley: Police attack a long line of protestors who had linked arms and refused to budge.  Seattle: Police officers pepper spray a priest, a pregnant woman, and an elderly women (who I'm just certain were throwing molotov cocktails at them).

You keep talking about some bizarre fantasy world that is very different than the real world that you and I both live in.  When the facts don't suit your ideological passions, you invent your own 'facts' to make things right.  It was absolutely okay for cops to pepper spray a priest because he was about to throw a bomb into their midst.  We have example after example of police using excessive force against nonviolent demonstrators.  It's happened again and again and again and again and again over the past few months and I'm sick of it.

The only people rioting here are the cops.

>A man is seen throwing a bomb. Once the bomb is thrown no ond can shoot him.
>The window to identify the threat, initiate lethal force, verify no innocents in the
>way, and so forth is very low.

Once again we're back to your fantasyland.  The protestors deserve to be brutalized because in Fantasyland they're all bombthrowing anarchists and not peaceful demonstrators who don't want to be silenced and shut up by the powers that be.  No!  That's not how America works.  That's the sort of crap I'd expect to see in Russia, China, or Saudi Arabia.  We're better than that and we need to act better than that.  You don't commit violence against nonviolent protestors just because it gets you off or because you can come up with some stupid ex-post-facto rationalization like "I'm certain that 85 year-old lady was about to start breaking out windows and lighting cars on fire!"

>Then there are protesters who will block access to said lethal attacker.

More fantasyland, especially given the fact that in the few instances where riots actually occurred that weren't perpetrated by the police (like Oakland), you saw a concerted effort by legitimate protestors to stop the black bloc 'anarchists' who just came to break windows and harass innocents.

>Every story has several sides. Some truth may be gleaned by examining it all.

Fantasyland isn't an actually side.  It's just your imagination.

>The Occupy crowd started with a minor criminal pretext, and crimes have been
>perpetuated by them, and they have repeatedly sought a violent confrontation.

As evidenced in reality.  I guess holding arms and saying that you are not going to be silenced and shut up is seeking a "violent confrontation".  Sitting their with a stoic face and saying that you're willing to be beat and brutalized by police officers is a criminal act.

You keep talking about violence and criminal acts by protestors, and I'm certain a few bad apples are doing their best to ruin the whole cause, but the fact of the matter is that protestors in numerous cases acted with much greater restraint and discipline than the police forces assaulting them did.

27 (edited by Demotivator 19-Nov-2011 22:36:43)

Re: So a pregnant teenager, an elderly woman, and a priest...

The reality is, from your discussion, that a crowd of you will break the law to surround a building, and then blackbloc anarchist infiltrators will commit some violence, and then you will ostracize them.

You won't actually prevent their violence, or turn them over for  punishment.

"As evidenced in reality.  I guess holding arms and saying that you are not going to be silenced and shut up is seeking a "violent confrontation".  Sitting their with a stoic face and saying that you're willing to be beat and brutalized by police officers is a criminal act."

Yes. Because like a pesky kittycat you do it where other people want to walk.  Go do it out of traffic.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: So a pregnant teenager, an elderly woman, and a priest...

And your blocking traffic hinders emergency services which results in innocent deaths.



As for your fantasy land claim.... allow me to adress that permamently.


http://www.verumserum.com/?p=33490

Let me remember the saying...


Protesters see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil....

Ignoring it, denying it, not seeing it does not mean it is not happening.

You were supposed to learn by age two that people can still tell you are there when you hide under a blanket, despite them saying "where did he go?"

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: So a pregnant teenager, an elderly woman, and a priest...

What happened in Egypt 2010 could happen anywhere.

30 (edited by xeno syndicated 21-Nov-2011 07:04:01)

Re: So a pregnant teenager, an elderly woman, and a priest...

> Einstein wrote:

> And your blocking traffic hinders emergency services which results in innocent deaths.



As for your fantasy land claim.... allow me to adress that permamently.


http://www.verumserum.com/?p=33490

Let me remember the saying...


Protesters see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil....

Ignoring it, denying it, not seeing it does not mean it is not happening.

You were supposed to learn by age two that people can still tell you are there when you hide under a blanket, despite them saying "where did he go?"


This is trolling pure and simple, Einstein.  You know (or at least you should know) that people have very good reason to be disappointed, pissed-off, and otherwise up-in-arms over the fiasco which was (and still is) the derivatives market and the way the financial system in general is run.

It's the same frustration people have had with the establishment for ages, and, sadly, it seems each generation of those in the establishment have to learn the same hard lesson again and again: that the establishment by virtue of it being established is adverse to change, while the people that establishment is to serve need change in order to survive in an ever-changing societal climate.

Measures of change to the establishment to ensure its services keep up with the will and needs of the people are needed.

What, therefore, are the measures of change needed for the next generation to be able to pursue and attain the decent standard of life everyone wants?

This is the question the media should be addressing, not the debate as to whether or not the protesters or the authorities are in the right or wrong.

Re: So a pregnant teenager, an elderly woman, and a priest...

He accused me of lying.

I provided proof.

The Tea Party is pissed. So pissed we organized everywhere.

You do not see me needing to defend them against criminal actions do you?


Yeah that's right, FLEABAGGERS GO HOME!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

32 (edited by Demotivator 20-Nov-2011 17:49:43)

Re: So a pregnant teenager, an elderly woman, and a priest...

http://moonbattery.com/occupy-bagram.jpg

"Measures of change to the establishment to ensure its services keep up with the will and needs of the people are needed.

What, therefore, are the measures of change needed for the next generation to be able to pursue and attain the decent standard of life everyone wants?

This is the question the media should be addressing, not the debate as to whether or not the protesters or the authorities are in the right or wrong.
Last edited by xeno syndicated (Yesterday 20:16:07)"

Well we decided, since they are wrong to demand other people's money as if it were a common resource, we should change how lenient we are to protestors so we all have a better standard of life without being hit by a brick or forced to detour to avoid smelly people tackling cops.

We have no obligation to provide "services" to people just because they demand it.  That course leads to Greece.

Most nations fail, and I don't see any reason why we should cripple the greatest nation that ever worked, to resemble all those Latin American and African and Asian and European states that went under, because "everybody thinks we should"


My grandparents went through the Great Depression and when I talked to that generation they were full of stories about how they changed to survive

They didn't talk about bitching in the street about getting other people's stuff

and my Great-Grandparents, that generation, DAMN they saved string and cardboard and aluminum foil all their lives. Cause back in the Depression stores ran out.  If one of them was alive, and like 50 years younger, they'd be up in your protesting ass with a axehandle  cause you are drinking $2 cups of coffee and demanding socialism pay your bills!  And yeah their street protests involved assault with a deadly weapon, I don't even think that was a crime back then

so why not do what the Greatest Generation and their belt-wielding parents did-- Improvise, Adapt, Overcome, Mutate yourself in a survivor American

Survivor Americans are gungho killing machines that just want a nice lawn and some pot roast and some goddam quiet, and face it isnt that what we all want in the end

there si one thing that America still does better than any other people on earth, it is in us, we eat and breathe it, and poop it, its who we are, its what we do

we're assholes

and in the age of unthinking electronic buy now pay later, being a asshole can pay enormous dividends

instead of protesting why not learn Russian or Chinese or German and export this wonderful ability to other countries.

Say theres a Russian who's a bit better off than his neighbors, he has a credit card and buys stuff online.  One night at dinner his phone rings, and some American with a horrible accent pretends to be his friend trying help him out with payment options.  He shouts at them for invading his   personal home space like a nekulturny wage slave.  20 mins later a different American calls back.  keeps up for 2 hours.  Now he has a problem, American assholes know where his family is.  To an American, this aint so awful because an American will be an asshole right back.  But this Russian or Chinese or Balt or Turk, he's gonna smell a conspiracy and he's going to go down in person somewhere and try to fix it.  THis is a service that the top 1% of Russians or Turks or Arabs or Chinese would love to have, I mean what's it cost to pay some American to work in a call center? And how much do they collect?

other countries dont do that. I had a Kenyan roommate in Minneapolis and I'd come home and there were 4 guys with him cooking kenyan chicken and cornmeal and they just met that day playing soccer, I was like (internal monologue)' how can you bring 4 people home the day you met them, we don't know they're not assholes'. But they weren't, they were cool.  so i learned the difference between Americans and all other peoples who have not been burnt by advertising and collections since age 7 ( like how another time I learned European socialsim is genetic cause they invented rent credit swaps to avoid destrying each other playing monopoly)

But it will never happen because we'd rather stand in a street bangng a drum and shouting than learn another language.  I mean, I read somewhere that if you don't learn by age 3 then your brain eats the language cells or something, right? Shit we should make people learn a second language as part of probation. "Sorry Malloy, you're clean and you got a job, aut ne parle-vous francais so you still are a con".  Nah, the ACLU would stand in the street banging a drum and shouting over that one.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.