Topic: Embassies

During the Cold War, and even before that, heck for centuries, Diplomats and Embassies were considered 'immune' from hurt for their nations actions. The simple point was that sometimes events happen and only by having a line of communication open could anyone ever get the events to calm down.


Soviet Spies would operate in other embassies, but if caught would not 'fight their way out' they would surrender. No one targeted an embassy for combat actions, no one attacked an embassy in any manner.


Civilization said that they were there to help make sure lines of communication and sanity could occur.



Then the growth of the new Islam occurred. Yes I say the new Islam, for in the past, before WWI embassies were left alone quite thoroughly. There is a difference of leaps and bounds between those old Islamists, and the current generations.

The difference shows extremely strongly in the dozen plus embassy attacks these new Islamists support, and have committed. The support is clear from the cheers in their streets. The support is clear in the lack of apologies and regrets by their people at large.




Does this mean Islam is insanity? For an embassy is supposed to help spread sanity between nations, between peoples...

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
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Re: Embassies

you cant just dump all islamists into that category.... the ones that are off killing people technically are not islamists as it is against their religion wink

The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut

Re: Embassies

"support is clear from the cheers in their streets."?
Embassies... ehh... you know what happened in 1958 when Sweden beat Germany in the semifinals in the World Championships in football? They kicked out the swedish embasy (or they threatened to, don't remember if they actually did).

25 Inventors: Back from Hell (8528) (x:93,y:21) 391 845454 - Dont see them coming back up. Theyre out of the game. Pretender, will finish out of top 30.
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Re: Embassies

it's not "against their religion", the koran does contain some passages abhoring killings but these can negated by other passages

basically the religion is only a religion of peace if you are yourself a muslim, if you are a disbeliever then you are fair game for various degrees of intolerance

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Re: Embassies

And don't forget when the Serbians ransacked a US or UK embassy just a few months ago when the west recognized Montenegro.

Re: Embassies

"the ones that are off killing people technically are not islamists as it is against their religion"

Where have I heard that before?

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: Embassies

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74

Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15

Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hmmmm

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Embassies

yeah and again like the last 5 times you don't post the whole sentence and just copy from one of your sites... why don't you give a link to that site?

lets start with the first 3:


"Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98"

vs

2:97. Say: "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel - for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by God's Will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-
2:98. Whoever is an enemy to God and His angels and apostles, to Gabriel and Michael (Daniel 12:1; Rev. 12:7),- Lo! God is an enemy to those who reject Faith."



"Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191"

vs

2:190. Fight in the Cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors.
2:191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Holy Temple, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
2:192. But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

selfdefense?


"Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme." (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

vs

that isn't 2:193...

2:193. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

8,39 is
8:38 Tell those who disbelieve that if they cease (from persecution of believers) that which is past will be forgiven them; but if they return (thereto) then the example of the men of old hath already gone (before them, for a warning).    
8:39 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.    
8:40 And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your Befriender - a Transcendent Patron, a Transcendent Helper!

and so on...


anyway whats is your point? want to start with idiotic bible passages? or with idiotic passages of bush?
the point is what people make out of a religion or books or speaches... seeing that there are probatly a millions peacefull muslims and less as 1% terrorist i don't see the problems... if life is worse for people it always creates fanactics.. no matter in what area...
has nothing to do with religione..

Tobi

Re: Embassies

Excellent putting into context Matrix. Shows some sense against Flints blunt and misleading generalizing.


The first thing that came to mind anyway on this was the US air strike on China's Embassy in Belgrade in 1999... smile

"It was an accident! Despite the intelligence officer correcting the location three days before, it was a big woopsie! Really! Honest! And Iraq has WMD's btw!"

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Re: Embassies

Islamism is the political agenda of a neofascist state built for restrictive application of Muslim law.

Islamist is a proponent of Islamism.

All Islamists are Muslims

But not all Muslims are Islamists.

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Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Embassies

Something that not all americans seem to realize, indeed. smile

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Re: Embassies

and not all Islamist are terrorist wink

Tobi

Re: Embassies

Um, there are... 1-2 bilion muslims. More then the christans. It's not right to say that 1% is terrorists (that would mean 10-20 MILION of them are...). More like 1/1000%. Most christians don't live under the bad circomstances as the muslims that turn into "terrorists" however. If they did then we'd have as many of them being "terrorists" as well. So yea, it's got nothing to do with the religion.

25 Inventors: Back from Hell (8528) (x:93,y:21) 391 845454 - Dont see them coming back up. Theyre out of the game. Pretender, will finish out of top 30.
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Re: Embassies

> DPS wrote:

> "the ones that are off killing people technically are not islamists as it is against their religion"

Where have I heard that before?


its also against Islamic law for muslims to go to war against eachother, but they do anyway.

mind you - how many christians in the world play the lottery?

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

15 (edited by [TI] ZoZferatu [Pw9] 04-Jun-2008 22:28:07)

Re: Embassies

Or drink, kill, masturbate, are greedy, lazy, proud, envious or over-indulgent, hate and so on? smile

Cardinal sins, all of them!


edit: Oh yes, this isn't about embassies, but it never was, eh Flintie?

☑ Saddam Hussein ☑ Osama Bin Laden ☐ Justin Bieber

16 (edited by East 04-Jun-2008 23:08:22)

Re: Embassies

the problem with islam is not so much direct violence against disbelievers, it is indeed prohibited by the quran to fight against peaceful disbelievers although it is not very clear when you are "fighting" believers (I think most muslims would count say missionary activities or even building a non-muslim house of worship on muslim territory under this); although slaying such disbelievers is not a sin that would preclude you from going to paradise (unlike killing a believer); the biggest problem is however the lack of separation between church and state; it is problematic for muslims to share political powers with disbelievers since they're not supposed to be too friendly or allied to them according to several passages of the quran, disbelievers can only enjoy a secondary status in muslim societies (and muslims are even supposed to strive against them - 25:52); it is also quite problematic that disbelievers are bascially equated with wrong-doers in the quran and that they will be actively punished by allah for disbelieving, since that provides a further basis to limit their standing in muslim society; the end result are discriminations that slowly strangle religious minorities into non-existence

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