1 Topic by AdriusAvangion (edited by AdriusAvangion 05-Apr-2011 05:03:26)

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Topic: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

These 2 ops have always been, and still are just a funny goof operation. I can count on 1 hand how many times ive personally seen them fool another player. The 4 spells/ops they emulate are generated at random. This is the main reason they fail to fool anyone....

You try to frame a Partaxian and fool a Revalon pop banker into thinking he was Hypnotized, only to get a failed Force Field attempt on their home planet? DURRR!

Or maybe you want to trick someone into thinking a planet's portal had a Sabotage attempt and you get a Nuke instead...on a hardcore attacker which is pointless unless your going for lasers....once again DURR!

You also need to find an empire who happens to have both the spells/ops that youre emulating. Not to say that finding an empire with both is terribly difficult. Framing an empire with just one of the 2 has a 50/50 chance of fooling your victim.



My proposal:
Let us choose which one of the 2 spells/ops we are trying to emulate. This minor change dramatically effects the believability of a GFI/PFI. False CPFFs and Sabotage attempts could be very strategic. You might be able to start a war by emulating nukes or a hypnotize on someone's big banker.


Right now these 2 operations are a complete joke....

[16:43] <Destroyyoutoo> AA, someone got fooled this round or last
[16:43] <Destroyyoutoo> forget which one
[16:43] <@Walking_Corpse> it was arganon both times dyt
[16:43] <@Walking_Corpse> doesn't count

i rest my case tongue

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he&#65279; is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!!

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

that would be nice change smile

Uruk Hai - Today at 10:04 PM  #Supernova
This is yours tits ().!.() with my little penis in the middle

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

Yeah, it's stupid that they're random. If we could choose the opp, that would be much better.. And yeah, getting Arganon to war Arby was fun, but I admit, it really doesn't count.. It took only 2 (lucky that i got the right ops) fi's on Arganon tongue

" If the world flips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.. "

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

Didn't help i actually opped him 1 time for real =/

Modestus Experitus

Arby: A very strict mod, reminds me of a fat redneck who drives a truck around all day with a beer in one hand. I hated this guy at the start, however, I played a round in PW with him where he went as an anonymous player. Our fam got smashed up and everyone pretty much left. Arby stayed around and helped out the remaining family. At the end of the round he revealed himself.... My views on him have changed since. Your a good guy.....

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

Aw.. sad Way to ruin it for me X( Anyways, I'll keep telling myself that the extra 2 were the last drop, and the reason why he really declared XD

" If the world flips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.. "

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

no u didnt arby

i actually GFI/PFI in ur mind, you have been fooled!

- The Galeonis Empire

[00:26] <&Walking_Corpse> mapgen doesn't work right for me
[00:26] <&Galeonis> yeah yeah same with ur penis tongue

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

Actually, i did. he beat me to a system with expo's, and i wanted to see if he was noob enough to attack me and break the 35% rule. He did, but i guess with fudgeh's help haha

Modestus Experitus

Arby: A very strict mod, reminds me of a fat redneck who drives a truck around all day with a beer in one hand. I hated this guy at the start, however, I played a round in PW with him where he went as an anonymous player. Our fam got smashed up and everyone pretty much left. Arby stayed around and helped out the remaining family. At the end of the round he revealed himself.... My views on him have changed since. Your a good guy.....

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

i actually like them how it is.... although i must admit that i only really use this op in SD when the ops are unlimited and you need to let other fams know other people are around them without communicating tbh its one of my favorite ops but only in sd tongue

"Heh heh heh heh heh heh!"

Metrex

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

In a hardcore galaxy most ops and spells are better. Kill Scientists for example is WAY better in a hardcore setting. What you are really saying is GFI/PFI is so bad that you dont want to waste an op using it in a normal galaxy. LOL

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he&#65279; is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!!

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

It's a fun idea, would make the ops worthwhile and make people monitor what they actually have more.  Might have to make it harder to cast to justify it becoming an op worth having

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

What!? LOL

"Might have to make it harder to cast to justify it becoming an op worth having"

Youre a mod for all of 3 days and youre already thinking like them? Lets take something that sucks, make it cool and then make it suck again? Why cant we see how the change effects the gameplay BEFORE you talk about nerfing it?

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he&#65279; is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!!

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12 Reply by Lee (edited by Lee 05-Apr-2011 19:31:52)

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

lol AA tongue

hes got a point tho, every tom dck and harry would be casting it, it would be a Dpenguins Dreamland! u would have to make it a little harder, not much tho like he says just becuase it becomes a op actually worth having.
and if u have the right agent count to start then u wouldnt really fail much tongue

but yeh its a cool idea ;p

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

Perhaps your right. It might be kinda nasty, but i dont see the reason to increase it's difficulty until you see it in action. Its jumping to conclusions and making assumptions.

Yes, my suggested change would no doubt improve these 2 ops. That being said, the change isnt a game breaker. Simply communicating can determine the validity of the emulated ops. So i have to ask; is nerfing it right out of the box really neccesary?

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he&#65279; is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!!

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  • Lee
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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

whos nerfing it? tongue

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

By making it harder you are making 2 changes at once. When you make multiple changes to something its harder to assess it overall. If its broken or seems weak then we ask ... Was it the choice option? Was it the difficulty? Was it both?

All im saying is lets see effect A before you add effect B to the mix. If it turns out to be a little looney or overpowered then by all means increase its difficulty.

and thats more work for Ps that might not be neccesary

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he&#65279; is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!!

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

> AdriusAvangion wrote:

>  What you are really saying is GFI/PFI is so bad that you dont want to waste an op using it in a normal galaxy. LOL


lol wtf?

"Heh heh heh heh heh heh!"

Metrex

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

> Metrex wrote:

"although i must admit that i only really use this op in SD when the ops are unlimited "


did i take your statement out of context?

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he&#65279; is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!!

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  • Rin
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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

i think metrex didnt know what GFI and PFI meant

<parrot> there is also the odd  possibility that tryme is an idiot
<KT> possibility?
<genesis> tryme is a bit of an idiot
<Torqez> bit?

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19 Reply by Pharaoh Metrex (edited by Pharaoh Metrex 06-Apr-2011 10:52:43)

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

i didnt say it was bad at all... if anything its good but just not as good as the other in a norm galaxy lol who said anything about it being bad?

lol AA fuuunny old man

"Heh heh heh heh heh heh!"

Metrex

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

It's a good op to waste an op with before tick, like you have 7 ops and tick ends in 5 mins... well why not waste that one op, right?

I mean it's not hurtful to you as it is (nearly) impossible to find out who casted it, only thing it costs is a couple gc or oct used to do the op.

Allowing you to choose what op it becomes might make it overpowered, too easy to trick people. At least now there is a chance they are not tricked.

"You try to frame a Partaxian and fool a Revalon pop banker into thinking he was Hypnotized, only to get a failed Force Field attempt on their home planet? DURRR!"
Then don't do it on their home planet. Do it in a system that is close to their border with the fam you are trying to frame, and that preferably has a DS in it. You gotta think "when might i CPFF or Sab a portal of a banker?" and then try to find a planet that fits your criteria.

Maar doodslaan deed hij niet, want tussen droom en daad,
Staan wetten in de weg en praktische bezwaren,
En ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren,
En die des avonds komt, wanneer men slapen gaat.

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21 Reply by AdriusAvangion (edited by AdriusAvangion 06-Apr-2011 16:15:24)

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

> RisingDown wrote:

"It's a good op to waste an op with before tick, like you have 7 ops and tick ends in 5 mins... well why not waste that one op, right?"

'waste' being the key word there. Yea it doesnt cost a whole lot to actually use it. What if you fail? You just sacrificed X amount of units for what? There is no such thing as 'random strategy'. Read Sun Tzu's 'Art of War'.

Its not that hard to figure out it was fake regardless of my proposed change. We still have the ability to think about what was done, why it was done and the motivation behind the 'framed empire' for doing those ops. Is it not the responsibility of the victimized empire to react in an intelligent manner? if it happened to me ill build more wizards. Ill contact the family that was framed and discuss the situation. I could just freak out and declare war, but is that the smart way to handle a few ops?

I think it will add a fun new element to the game as far as relations are concerned. I hope it does fool more people. Im all for chaos and confusion. I would love to see this new and improved op start a few wars. I beleive thats the spirit behind GFI/PFI's true purpose. As it stands right now, it is as you said..... a waste.

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he&#65279; is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!!

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

In fact not really a waste as it won't cost you much. Though failing them sucks yeah, gotta agree to that, but that is what you have dedicated oppers for. Keep em lower on NW and higher on agent/wizard counts, and there you go. Done it myself plenty times, and for me it's enjoyable just to watch them go "wutttt".
About 'The Art of War', I'm not much of a reader, sorry. I can hardly get through the compulsory books in school.

How is it not hard to figure out whether it was a fake or not? Well you could ask your opponent: "Did you op me?", but that would make no sense as the obvious answer is "No" regardless of it being true or it being a lie. Think intelligently about what happened? Yeah because everyone in this game takes the time to process things they see *cough*. There's plenty people who'll act rashly and impulsivly, and who'll fall for PFI's if you were able to plant the same op every time. "look 2 failed CPFF's on an important portal, 2 failed hypno's on pop banker, me want revenge" or something like that. Not everyone is as intelligent.
Furthermore, in my previous post i said " try to find a planet that fits your criteria.". This is perhaps the most important in deciding who/where to PFI. For instance, if you have infils that indicate skirmishing in a certain area between 2 fams and you've  found out where one of the attackers' portals are, you could plant false failed CPFF's. As they are already skirmishing and the portal is probably of importance, that'd give them a fair reason to go a step further than just mere skirmishing and perhaps start an all-out war.
Furthermore, if they were to give you the option to chose for the op you want to generate, they should increase the percentage of ops you fail as well, let's say, comparable to estorms/real cpffs. But then again we get to your first point where the random fail would prevent the op from being worthwile, as it would just cost you too many agents/wizards to make it worthwile.

It may be a fun element to the game for more intelligent people who can see through the false infos and filter out the real failed ops, however, this game has too many people who do not fit these criteria and therefore this fun addition will surely prove too overpowered or make things too confusing.

As it stands now, it may seem as a waste. However, this particular type of "waste" is fun to abuse and at times even effective. Fun effective waste. And most importantly, not too overpowered.

Maar doodslaan deed hij niet, want tussen droom en daad,
Staan wetten in de weg en praktische bezwaren,
En ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren,
En die des avonds komt, wanneer men slapen gaat.

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Re: Improve Generate/Plant False Info

agree to disagree tongue

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he&#65279; is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!!

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