Topic: Containment of China

during the Cold War the USA had a policy of containment against the USSR and its allies.


Countries bordering the Soviet-sphere of influence would be brought into the American sphere as a barrier to the Soviets.

20 years after the Cold War we have a rising China.

China has an extensive list of neighbours including Russia, South Korea, Japan, India, Vietnam, Afghanistan etc.

Should America follow a policy of containment to reduce the impact a powerful China will have on the world?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/15/china-asia-regional-cooperation?INTCMP=SRCH

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: Containment of China

I don't believe a policy of containment is feasible even if the US chose to adopt this approach. The US has many interests, both political and economic, with some of those same allies, and even with China itself. The mythical WWIII that everyone theorizes and postulates upon will probably never become a reality -- at least not insofar as people presently imagine it.

I think that the spirit of trade -- even if it is not "free" trade -- ought to be encouraged between these nations, since it is the only guarantee against a total war. Trade and commerce, not gunboat diplomacy, will keep the war drums at bay. Our best hope is that capitalism, at the very least, will delay the inevitable.

Caution Wake Turbulence

Re: Containment of China

you know that guy Angelll said the same thing about war between European states in 1909?

China has 50 years of links with Africa and started more wtih Latin America in the past decade.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

4 (edited by Little Paul 16-Jan-2011 11:26:16)

Re: Containment of China

Russia is still there, its only smaller as the USSR and changed that name. The only difference is that they use the word mob now instead of party member. Current leadership should be removed before they grow to strong with all their energy resources. They are equally dangerous as the Chinese gov.

Only difference, it seems like the Chinese are slowly heading towards a revolution. At least I hope they do.

Re: Containment of China

America should firebomb China,then contract Bechtel to build them new houses.
The usual modus operandi

That's how fast it takes for a guy to get whacked

Re: Containment of China

They're already trying to do so, look at the american naval bases in South Eastern Asia.

Maar doodslaan deed hij niet, want tussen droom en daad,
Staan wetten in de weg en praktische bezwaren,
En ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren,
En die des avonds komt, wanneer men slapen gaat.

Re: Containment of China

Russia is there yes, but Russia is not the superpower that the USSR was. the Russians are in an ok relationship with China, they sell them arms and have even conducted joint military exercises but they are worried about a rising China looking northwards at the extensive but sparsely populated lands Russia holds in the far east.

if the Russia and China however were to actually join forces they could prove to be quite a menace. Both countries are modernizing their military machines, they are on the UN Security Council and are rising economies.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: Containment of China

@eh:
Russia has  tons of energy resources while worldwide supplies shrink and the biggest econ in the world (EU) needs it. That makes them very powerful.

Re: Containment of China

Don't forget, however, that China and Russia have been political rivals for a long time, especially during the Soviet era.  Besides, if the two nations did attempt to develop greater political ties in any offensive manner, it would be problematic.  China's economic and military capabilities can stretch much further than Russia's capabilities, and Russia already has a number of long term domestic problems.

Besides, a Russia-China alliance would never be a Russia-China alliance.  It would be a China-Russia alliance.  No Russian leader could really survive a stance as the second fiddle in an alliance with one of its two major political rivals.  Ever notice how Russia's political alliances are generally either massive coalitions where no single nation has power, or Russia-dominated alliances such as the Soviet satellite nation system?  They wouldn't stand for a second fiddle relationship with China, so the alliance thing is pretty much out of the question.


Side note: The first, obvious step to a stronger Russia-China military relationship would be increased immigration promotion.  China is facing a serious overpopulation problem.  Russia, in contrast, is actively trying to promote increased births to sustain its population.  A little bit of China->Russia immigration could go a long way in stabilizing both nations.

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The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Containment of China

As long as China keeps its infamy low and doesn't get any unlucky casus beli's against it I don't see anyone declaring war without incurring a stability drop

Not many people know this, but I own the first radio in Springfield. Not much on the air then, just Edison reciting the alphabet over and over. "A" he'd say; then "B." "C" would usually follow...

Re: Containment of China

Europa Universalis, Arocalex?  Oh, I just found my new best friend!  smile

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Re: Containment of China

Britain didn't want to play second-fiddle until America came along and it had little other choice.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

13 (edited by [RPA] Arocalex 17-Jan-2011 13:22:37)

Re: Containment of China

Yeah godwin, I play lots of paradox games.

EDIT: I will certainly be your friend.

Not many people know this, but I own the first radio in Springfield. Not much on the air then, just Edison reciting the alphabet over and over. "A" he'd say; then "B." "C" would usually follow...

Re: Containment of China

lol

15 (edited by Firewing 17-Jan-2011 17:57:49)

Re: Containment of China

Some Paradox games are really good. But Victoria 2 and HOI3 failed in my view.

The best strategy to contain china is simple: Stop buying their goods! This is a simple way to prevent support for an enemy nations economy. That starts by everyone of us. Without the acceptance of their products by consumers in the US and europe, China cannot hold its rapid rise to supremecy.

Re: Containment of China

^ its impossible to stop buying thier goods. your suggesting boycotting walmart. who in thier right minds would do this? yea you have a fear of a world power coming into play but the fear of not having money or goods is much greater. we will not stop buying from china any time soon

Re: Containment of China

@firewing:
Going from "world power" to "supremacy" is quit a leap. US needs to export its grain to china so its never officially going to launch such a proposal. It would work if the consumers did so but they never will. They go for the cheapest product even if they would know whether its Chinese or not.

Re: Containment of China

ah so promoting the economies of countries that can undercut China would be a way of containing china. like India for example or perhaps african countries.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: Containment of China

> [RPA] Arocalex wrote:

> As long as China keeps its infamy low and doesn't get any unlucky casus beli's against it I don't see anyone declaring war without incurring a stability drop


ah but they're in the process of westernizing so they're bound to take a couple of -5 stab hits

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20 (edited by Alpha5 18-Jan-2011 10:50:08)

Re: Containment of China

New York Times: G.E. to share Boeing 787 tech with Chinese



G.E. plans this week to sign a joint-venture agreement under which it will share it most sophisticated airplane electronics, including some of technology from Boeing's 787 Dreamliner, with state-owned Chinese company Avic, The New York Times reported Monday.

    As China strives for leadership in the world's most advanced industries, it sees commercial jetliners -- planes that may someday challenge the best from Boeing and Airbus -- as a top prize.

    And no Western company has been more aggressive in helping China pursue that dream than one of the aviation industry's biggest suppliers of jet engines and airplane technology, General Electric. ...

    For G.E., the pact is a chance to build upon an already well-established business in China, where the company has booming sales of jet engines, mainly to Chinese airlines that are now buying Boeing and Airbus planes. But doing business in China often requires Western multinationals like G.E. to share technology and trade secrets that might eventually enable Chinese companies to beat them at their own game -- by making the same products cheaper, if not better.

The joint venture will supply the Chinese Comac C919, which is challenging Boeing and Airbus in the market for single-aisle jets with more than 100 seats. Analysts generally believe the C919 won't find many customers outside of China, but will provide a base on which to build the country's airliner industry.

G.E. will contribute the same avionics system it supplies to the 787, The Times reported.


Kent L. Statler, an executive vice president for commercial aviation at Rockwell Collins, put it best in the story, saying: "I think you're na

That's how fast it takes for a guy to get whacked

Re: Containment of China

> East wrote:

> > [RPA] Arocalex wrote:

> As long as China keeps its infamy low and doesn't get any unlucky casus beli's against it I don't see anyone declaring war without incurring a stability drop


ah but they're in the process of westernizing so they're bound to take a couple of -5 stab hits



But the religious factions lost influence in China, so they can't declare war on anybody anyway.  (Yeah, the newest expansion is awesome!)

Make Eyes Great Again!

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Re: Containment of China

the Chinese are smart, they know that they cant undercut everyone forever, so when western tech companies want a piece of the action in China the Chinese are demanding a transfer of tech as a part of the deal. that way China gets access to technology it cant yet produce. they get access to it, they will study it, and reverse-engineer it. so in future the aim is to produce more advanced tech rather than the cheap low tech stuff they make now.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

23 (edited by Little Paul 19-Jan-2011 13:25:42)

Re: Containment of China

@eh:
true. Few people know it but it has been their tactic for a long time to let people go to foreign countries to collect valuable technological information then return. Teachers eg. But since their economic openness it works far more effective, as the tech comes to them.

Re: Containment of China

if you compare the natural resources of China vs USA, the US has some advantages in oil and natural gas (china has some advantage in certain minerals)

so what China has been doing is going into Africa in a major way, doing deals, building roads, schools ALL of it so they get access to resources.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth