Topic: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvFj1QIn1EA&feature=related

The inmates are running the asylum

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

unless the Afghans blew up 3000 russians in 1978 I'm not seeing the parallel

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

3 (edited by Chickenwingz 15-Aug-2010 20:06:57)

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

Casualties and losses
Soviet:
14,453 Killed (total) [3]
9,511 killed in combat [3]
2,386 died from wounds [3]
2,556 died from disease and accidents [3]
53,753 Wounded [3]
311 Missing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan

total of 14453 russians killed and 53753 wounded, so yeah, they killed more than 3000 russians in 1978.

Maar doodslaan deed hij niet, want tussen droom en daad,
Staan wetten in de weg en praktische bezwaren,
En ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren,
En die des avonds komt, wanneer men slapen gaat.

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

the taliban didn't exist back then, the "freedom fighters" Reagan talked about became the warlord coalition holed up in the north before the US invasion propelled them back into government positions across the country

IOW on the whole they're still in the US camp smile

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Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

USSR went into Afghanistan because they wanted a Soviet puppet

US went into Afghanistan because Al Qaeda killed 3000 people in DC and NYC and the Taliban said "no you can't have them, t hey're our bros"

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

6 (edited by Chickenwingz 16-Aug-2010 15:56:23)

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

USSR went into Afghanistan because the Mujahideen were fighting off the Marxist Afghan government, so you could say they were trying to "protect" part of the Marxist "states".

So in other words, the USSR was trying to protect other Marxists from dying

Maar doodslaan deed hij niet, want tussen droom en daad,
Staan wetten in de weg en praktische bezwaren,
En ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren,
En die des avonds komt, wanneer men slapen gaat.

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

except we know what Brezhnev had in mind and what the KGB paratroops reported when they stormed the palace in 1979 so we know they did not mean any such thing

so you could say it

but you would a liar

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

"Amin was known for his independent and nationalist inclinations, and was also seen by many as a ruthless leader. He has been accused of killing thousands of Afghan civilians. The Soviet Union looked at him as a threat for communism in Afghanistan and Soviet Central Asia. In December, 1979 Amin was assassinated by the Soviet soldiers killing Amin and his 200 guards."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_civil_war
^same war in which the soviet union was involved, except this one's time span continues up and till the present day situation.

Maar doodslaan deed hij niet, want tussen droom en daad,
Staan wetten in de weg en praktische bezwaren,
En ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren,
En die des avonds komt, wanneer men slapen gaat.

9 (edited by Chris_Balsz 16-Aug-2010 17:02:03)

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

trick question

whats the name of the person who wrote taht?

i mean it COULD be a Ph.D. in Soviet studies from Columbia University with nothing better to do

but I doubt it

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

sad i just noticed this banner
This article needs attention from an expert on the subject. See the talk page for details. WikiProject Military history or the Military history Portal may be able to help recruit an expert. (December 2009)

but yeah, it's wikipedia so there's supposed to be loads of people editing it to near-perfection.

Maar doodslaan deed hij niet, want tussen droom en daad,
Staan wetten in de weg en praktische bezwaren,
En ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren,
En die des avonds komt, wanneer men slapen gaat.

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

yeah guys named Borisov in their basement office in Bulgaria

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

Loads of people just make things less accurate. When the majority have been miseducated by politically motivated hacks, the majority's input will only guarantee you get it wrong.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

It always reminds me of Rambo 3 where he is riding with the noble Taliban to fight off the soviets.

TImes change though, it is naive to think any country is governed by morals, Britain and America have installed and supported brutal dictatorships only to then turn on them when they no longer served a purpose.

This is not neccesarily a bad thing, the role of a government is to provide for its people and further the countries aims - supporting militants when they are fighting an enemy (the soviets) makes sense.


So does removing them when they bite the hand that feeds.

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

"It always reminds me of Rambo 3 where he is riding with the noble Taliban to fight off the soviets."

As I already pointed out above, it wasn't the taliban hmm

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sdffdgjfhjdfhgjhsfsdfqgsbsthzgflqkcgjhkgfjnbkmzghkmqrghqmskdghqkmsghnvhdf
qmkjghqmksdjqlskhqkmsdhqmskfhjqmskjdfhqkmsdfjhqmskfhjqkmsjdfhqkm
sjfhqkmsjfhqkmsjfhkqmjsfhqksdjmfhqksjfhqskjdfhnbwfjgqreutyhaerithgfqsd
kjnqsdfqsdfqsdfmkjqhgmkjnqsgkjmhzdflmghjsmdlghjsmdkghmqksdjghq

15 (edited by V.Kemp 18-Aug-2010 12:21:22)

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

Your video equates an invasion by a communist USSR with a US response to terrorist attacks with the _clear intention of giving control to a democratic Afghanistan_. An invasion with the purpose of gaining a satellite state to impose communist control over and an invasion with the purpose of removing terrorist-harboring/encouraging totalitarian dirtbags and replacing them with the country's own people aren't exactly identical. There are a few obvious differences that the retarded individuals who put your video together were obviously not able to grasp. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being retarded. I'm just saying that you can probably find better sources of information and thought-provoking media than that which retarded individuals (or groups, for that matter) produce.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

"most of the aid was supplied to Islamist hardliner Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, now a senior Taliban leader and a supporter of al-Qaeda." - This is the famous aid provided by America and backed by the infamous Charlie Wilson

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

Mujahideen

The West gave them guns, bombs, and training to fight off invaders. They have since become terrorists of their own free will, their own choice.
If you want to blame The West for something, some source of evil we can all use to distract ourselves from the dirt and drudgery of our working lives, point at Iran.

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

18

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

We (the US) were funding the "Freedom Fighters". Then they turned on us.

Rehabilitated IC developer

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

> Chickenwingz wrote:

> Casualties and losses
Soviet:
14,453 Killed (total) [3]
9,511 killed in combat [3]
2,386 died from wounds [3]
2,556 died from disease and accidents [3]
53,753 Wounded [3]
311 Missing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan

total of 14453 russians killed and 53753 wounded, so yeah, they killed more than 3000 russians in 1978.




rofl!

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

> Petrolstone wrote:
> We (the US) were funding the "Freedom Fighters". Then they turned on us. <

After you [bleep]ed up Iran by destroying its _democracy_ simply because it didn't want to do business with you, possibly because it didn't like your methods of doing business.
__________
__________

Why are we discussing this anyway? It's not like America is going to say "Look, I'm sorry, alright? I was a greedy, selfish twat and I [bleep]ed everything up, k? Now what do you want me to do about it?" not because it can't, but because the people aren't ready yet. That and America still thinks it can fix everything.
Like it or not America is going to have to sit and watch as Iran falls to crap and chaos from the inside, all the while knowing that "I did that. That's my fault."
And that will be a very sobering day indeed.

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

>>total of 14453 russians killed and 53753 wounded, so yeah, they killed more than 3000 russians in 1978.
rofl!<<

1978 is one year before the war started.


>>Why are we discussing this anyway? It's not like America is going to say "Look, I'm sorry, alright? I was a greedy, selfish twat and I [bleep]ed everything up, k? Now what do you want me to do about it?" not because it can't, but because the people aren't ready yet. That and America still thinks it can fix everything.<<

And the USA is to blame for the Holocaust, because we funded German reconstruction after the first world war.  Yes we did it 20 years before the Holocaust for a totally different reason, but sitting on your ass in front of a computer in a differnet country, the parallels are exact and it pisses off all the right people to say so.


Why not repeat the one aobut America being to blame for WW2.  See if we'd acted towards Hitler like Bush did to Saddam, of course the rest of Europe would have followed our example.  The average Frenchman and Brit just hoped some American would come along and tell him what to do.  Go ahead and repeat that one, it was very popular for a long time.

>>Like it or not America is going to have to sit and watch as Iran falls to crap and chaos from the inside, all the while knowing that "I did that. That's my fault."
And that will be a very sobering day indeed.<<

Internal revolt is the best case scenario, as opposed to the first World War that starts outside Europe and drags the rest of us in.  I hope we can cause such a revolt, it will solve problems and be less bloody than a general war out there.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

22

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

> V.Kemp wrote:

> Loads of people just make things less accurate. When the majority have been miseducated by politically motivated hacks, the majority's input will only guarantee you get it wrong.


and that's the only truth you will find because those who know the real story are seeked and destroyed in silence.

Anyway, in all this discussions, I think you're missing the (clean?) jobs of your so loved service of intelligence (aka CIA).
They are active in any country to erase any living clue that's threatening their writing of history according to your state conveniences.

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

The average Brit was too concerned with fighting Japan, Italy and Germany on our own for two years to sit around waiting for Americans to tell us what to do tongue

24 (edited by Chris_Balsz 28-Aug-2010 20:55:43)

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

i never said it made sense, it was just very popular over here for a while

anyhow they're pretending you wouldn't have let Hitler have Czecho and the Rhineland if we had been involved.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: When the "Terrorists" were "Freedom Fighters

> Chris_Balsz wrote:

>>Why are we discussing this anyway? It's not like America is going to say "Look, I'm sorry, alright? I was a greedy, selfish twat and I [bleep]ed everything up, k? Now what do you want me to do about it?" not because it can't, but because the people aren't ready yet. That and America still thinks it can fix everything.<

And the USA is to blame for the Holocaust, because we funded German reconstruction after the first world war.  Yes we did it 20 years before the Holocaust for a totally different reason, but sitting on your ass in front of a computer in a differnet country, the parallels are exact and it pisses off all the right people to say so.<<

No, Germany is to blame for the holocaust, and if you want to be a dick about it, Britain for inventing the Concentration Camp.
America is to blame for Iran being what it is today because America made Iran what it is today DIRECTLY by outing the democratically elected leader in favour of installing some religious nutjob who swore blind he'd make to country do business with America. You may not like it, and I understand that, but it did happen and there's not alot you can do to fix it, just like the UK can't un-invent the concentration camp.


>> Why not repeat the one aobut America being to blame for WW2.  See if we'd acted towards Hitler like Bush did to Saddam, of course the rest of Europe would have followed our example.  The average Frenchman and Brit just hoped some American would come along and tell him what to do.  Go ahead and repeat that one, it was very popular for a long time. <<

Why not?
1) I don't know it.
2) It sounds like a load of crap to me.
3) Hitler would have rolled over Europe regardless because at that time even America didn't have an army to speak of.


>> Like it or not America is going to have to sit and watch as Iran falls to crap and chaos from the inside, all the while knowing that "I did that. That's my fault."
And that will be a very sobering day indeed. <

Internal revolt is the best case scenario, as opposed to the first World War that starts outside Europe and drags the rest of us in.  I hope we can cause such a revolt, it will solve problems and be less bloody than a general war out there. <<

An all out mid-east conflict is still a possibility, in my opinion, due to the blatant lack of stability and warmongering. As far as Iran is concerned, well, I think the Iranian government's reaction will make Tiananmen Square look like a nasty disagreemant with lots of pushing and shoving.


I know 20/20 hindsight is a bitch, and I'm sorry for this, but the USA shouldn't have done it in the first place; it was hypocritical of America to out a democratic leader simply because he didn't want to do business with America, and quite frankly it was more the kind of thing I'd have expected the USSR to do.
Freedom is irrelevant. Self determination is irrelevant. Want is irrelevant. Resistance is futile.

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."