The big, sick joke is that the biggest abortion advocates in the USA began as racist institutions that wanted to kill as many minorities as possible before they were born.

I don't enjoy bathing in urine or stabbing myself, so I'm not going to read the this whole tired topic of a thread again because they tend to be similar to those. But yes, anyone who denies that a fetus is a living human being is ignorant. Or they're lying. It's one or the other. It's an ignorant claim used by ignorant people/liars because they mistakenly figure that it's the best way to support their argument. If it's not a human being what is it? It's a human being. If it's not alive... Okay, there's no need to mock whoever's making this claim (seen it referenced twice not even reading the whole thread) THAT much. It's alive by every scientific measure available to us. Which is pretty alive.

I'm not pro-life, but yes it's uneducated to hold a position that's obviously and undisputedly wrong. Fetuses are not any other creature; they're humans at the earliest stages of development. It's that simple. It's not my opinion. They really aren't aliens or turtles until leaving the mother. And they're certainly alive by any measure. They have their own genetic code which dictates their development and guides their behavior--it doesn't appear at birth. They develop their own nervous systems and circulatory systems in time. They're alive by 100% of scientific measures. Their cells aren't rocks or dirt or water or wind. They're living cells. By every measure except some misguided and ignorant rhetoric.

This doesn't mean you're going to explode if you kill a fetus, but to claim that a fetus is not a human being is a false claim. And to claim that taking a living thing and making it a dead isn't killing that thing thing redefines what it is to "kill." It's either ignorant or a lie to claim that a fetus is not a living human being. In either event, it's not true. And it's certainly not educated. The technical term for this is "uneducated."

Like I said, not pro life. I respect various positions on this subject fully and I believe that an actual understanding of those positions, what they are, and why their holders hold them is a good thing for all of society. But the position that human beings alive in the early stages of development are not humans nor alive is just ignorant and attempts to rely on fallacious logic to support one's position. While the position may or may not be correct, that living human beings aren't living human beings is not the reason abortion is acceptable if it is.

Please refrain from relying on garbage to support your claims. Nobody respects a man on a garbage heap's opinion on anything. And this would be a sexier forum with more zazz if we were more concerned with an honest discussion with the purpose of boiling down points of agreement and points of contention than making things up because they'd support our position if they were true. Support forum sexiness. Support zazz! And, on a personal note, John Wayne for King of the Universe!