Topic: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

The internet is usually thought of as a venue for the pursuit of liberty in many aspects.  However, is it as conducive to the pursuit of liberty as it could be?  Let's take the rules of this very forum as an example:

Do you think the current IC forum rules are

a)  too limiting of posters' freedom of expression
b)  not limiting enough of posters' freedom of expression
c)  properly limiting of posters' freedom of expression
d)  doesn't matter because there isn't enough enforcement of the rule for them to be taken seriously

(Let me express my expectation that this thread will be closed, as the topic is potentially subversive to the authority of the moderators, and I perceive a lot of draconianism on internet discussion forums in general.  On a positive note this particular forum one of the few discussion forums which might actually even tolerate such a discussion.)






IC Forum Rules:    http://www.imperialconflict.com/explain.php?what=forum_rules
 
1. Use appropriate language
Do not use language which is sexually explicit, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, vulgar, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive. This includes both clear and implied language, images, or links to websites with such content. Posts and thread titles consisting of this language will be edited accordingly. Masking profanity/insults will also be censored. Abbreviations, such as WTF, are acceptable.

Moderator action: Posts which contain uncensored content, as detailed above, will be edited.


2. No harassment
Harassment is not necessarily limited to the type of language used, but the intent. This includes both clear and implied language that refers to violence in any capacity that is not directly related to the game. This further includes the distribution, release or discussion of any real-life, personal, or private information both real life and game related about other players or moderators of Imperial Conflict. For example, posting phone numbers, home addresses, planet lists, battle reports, family forum content etc. is not allowed. Repeatedly targeting a specific player or persons with harassment will lead to further action.

Moderator action: Mods will delete all posts that are deemed harassing after the victim has stated that they do not want further communication with the harasser. In the case of sexual harassment, all offending posts will be deleted. Posts which contain private information about a player or family whether it be real life or game related will be edited accordingly.


3. Respect others and behave maturely
You must respect others and their rights to enjoy this game and the forums. In order to show proper respect, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, insult, name call, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players or the moderators. This includes using words which do not fall under the coverage of rule 1 concerning inappropriate language. Patronizing new players/posters will be frowned upon.

Moderator action: Posts which are deemed to be disrepectful to others or immature will be edited accordingly.

Post and Thread Rules
4. Posts should be constructive in nature
Back up your statements/claims. If quoting, make sure to quote all relevant and necessary text, and if appropriate, provide a link to the originating source. If criticising ideas, back your opinion with facts or well thought out suggestions. Do not make posts or threads that are solely intended to incite controversy, provoke anger, insult people, present misinformation, and/or concerning personal issues with other members.

Moderator action: Posts which are unconstructive or unhelpful will be construed as spam and edited accordingly.


5. Create threads on the correct boards
There are different category forums for a reason. In order for forum visiters to find what they are looking for more easily, create threads on their relevant boards.

Moderator action: Threads created on incorrect boards will be moved to the correct forum. The thread on the incorrect will then be closed with a message informing where it has been moved to.


6. No flaming or trolling
Do not verbally attack or provoke others into fights or post for the sole purpose of causing unrest or dissent and stirring up trouble. Do not use immature name-calling and do not take personal conflicts onto the forums in public.

Moderator action: Posts deemed to fall under this category will be edited by mods. Offending threads will be closed. Multiple instances will be deleted.


7. No spamming
Spamming is defined as the following:
- Inside spam (message): Posting identical posts in multiple threads so that it will be in multiple threads.
- Inside spam (large): Posting giant posts with no comprehensible/on-topic content in multiple threads to make thread loading time longer.
- Inside spam (small): To create a post in a thread with noncomprehensible or nonsensical content or absolutely not related to the topic of the content.
- Flooding/Thread spam: Posting many blank or message-less new threads in quick succession (usually to push off threads that existed earlier).
- Thread spam (small): To create a thread without a real topic, to waste the readers time.
- Multiple topic spam: To create a thread when another thread on a similar topic already exists.
- Thread bumping: Posting in threads that have been inactive for some time.
- Off-topic posts: Posts which do not fit in with the general topic of the thread.

Moderator action: All spam will be deleted.


8. No linking to inappropriate websites
Do not post links to porn sites. No linking to websites that would contain content in violation of any forum or game rules stated here. Questionable links will be dealt with on a case by case basis.

Moderator action: Posts containing offending material will be edited.


9. No improper advertising
Do not market, promote, advertise or solicit within the Imperial Conflict forums any non-Imperial Conflict-related business, organizations, people or websites.

Moderator action: Posts which profit the poster or any external organization in any way will be edited.


10. No impersonations
Do not impersonate or pass yourself off as any other Imperial Conflict owner, developer, moderator, or in-game player. This includes creating similar variances upon names in order to deceive, misrepresent or post false information to others.

Moderator action: Posts made by impersonators will be edited accordingly.

Forum Nick, Signature and Avatar Rules
11. No inappropriate names
Illegal nicks are those which contain inappropriate language as detailed in rule 1. Furthermore, no nicks are allowed whose intention is to belittle the conditions of others or impersonate anyone or are in any way obscene, vulgar, or profane.

Moderator action: Offending posts which fall under this category will be deleted. The forum nick will be removed and an ingame warning issued.


12. Signatures and avatars
Your avatar must be no bigger than 80 pixels by 64 pixels in size and no larger than 25 KB. What can and cannot be included in signatures and images for avatars follows the same rules and regulations as anything else posted in these forums.

Moderator action: Illegal signatures or avatars will be removed and an ingame warning issued.

Moderation
13. Do not make public accusations of rule breaking and do not discuss certain blocks in the forum
To improve the mood in the forums, public discussions of the above are not allowed. Issues and questions regarding rule breaking and blocks should be addressed to the moderators (ways to contact mods are listed in the FAQ).

Moderator action: Public threads on these issues will be removed and a moderator will be alerted to the issue.


14. Closed threads
If a thread is closed, moved or deleted, do not, under any circumstances, repost the same topic or material or reopen the thread. If you have any questions as to why a thread was closed, moved or deleted please contact the forum moderators (ways to contact forum moderators are listed in the FAQ).

Moderator action: Repeatedly reposted or reopened threads will be deleted.


15. The moderator's decision is final
The Imperial Conflict moderators have the authority to use their discretion and common sense on a case by case basis on moderating these forums and punishments for violating any of these rules. In special cases, moderators may delete posts deemed highly offensive to themselves or posts which contain a security risk.


16. Failure to comply to the rules
Continuous failure to comply to these forum rules will result in a mod-issued forum warning in the offending thread. Further offences made following this warning could result in a temporary or permanent forum or account block, depending on the severity of the offence. You may appeal a decision made by mods/forum mods by discussing the punishment with a full moderator using the regular channels of communication.

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

Nothing matters.

Stefan owns the server. Stefan appointed mods to watch over forums on server. Anything goes, and if we don't like it we can go elsewhere.

Rehabilitated IC developer

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

c, or d.

All the rules come down to that it doesn't matter what you say onhere, as long as you say it politely and act mature. I can live with that.

Also, perhaps make distinction of IC forum in general, or IC's political forum with more relaxed rules.

☑ Saddam Hussein ☑ Osama Bin Laden ☐ Justin Bieber

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

B & D.

I've never seen a significant moderator action, in the big scheme of things, to have any complaint about. They ignore 99%+ of spamming/trolling/flaming/disrespectful posts. Though I disagree with your premise that it's "freedom of expression" that needs to be limited on that end of the spectrum. What would the purpose of intentionally limiting freedom of expression for its own sake be? It's allowing violations of the rules when you post troll, flame, spam, and post generally disrespectful messages while ignoring thread content (which is disrespectful and defeats the explicit and implicit purpose of a discussion forum) which is problematic on that end of the spectrum. It has absolutely nothing to do with freedom of expression, aside from perhaps making it against the rules for those unable to express themselves to post angry and weird messages to the forum.

This is why I find your expectation that this thread will be closed to be humorous. You regularly enjoy violating the forum rules and moderators letting it slide. Of course, who can blame them. It's hard to moderate what one cannot bear to read.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

5 (edited by Little Paul 26-Jun-2010 12:47:48)

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

A,B & D

D is no complaint to the mods. This goes for nearly every large forum on the internet.

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

Please be advised that this thread was intended to be a poll only (not a discussion), and so in no way was this thread created with the intent to break rule number 13.

"Moderation
13. Do not make public accusations of rule breaking and do not discuss certain blocks in the forum
To improve the mood in the forums, public discussions of the above are not allowed. Issues and questions regarding rule breaking and blocks should be addressed to the moderators (ways to contact mods are listed in the FAQ).

Moderator action: Public threads on these issues will be removed and a moderator will be alerted to the issue."

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

Nobody made accusations. We just discussed facts. While you're worried about breaking rule 13, try giving consideration to rules 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7 in the future.

Why is your poll so focused on limiting posters' expression? Why do you propose that limiting freedom of expression is a measure any of us want to see, as opposed to enforcement of the rules? Since nobody here presumably wants to see more or less limitation of expression (which no one has a problem with), isn't this thread just spam in violation of the rules? You can't discuss people breaking the rules without discussing people breaking the rules. You could discuss it in some generalized way (so as not to make "accusations" by stating the state of things), but that would open the door to lies and ridiculous nonsense. Which would be spam. So it's one rule or another you're breaking.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

"I've never seen a significant moderator action, in the big scheme of things, to have any complaint about. They ignore 99%+ of spamming/trolling/flaming/disrespectful posts."

You have to be permissive. Otherwise you pinch out whatever fun people are still having in this forum. Aside from Politics perhaps (wich is a hell to keep up with) I think the forums are managed rather well, tbh. It comes down to what you consider to be crossing the line, and it's always a hard choice to make. For example when someone says "Primo's gay" it's a joke, while it can be interpreted as an insult as well. Same goes for SD having a small penis.
Another example is the pompiedompiedom thread. It should be interpreted as spam, but it's part of the forum's culture.

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

9 (edited by xeno syndicated 29-Jun-2010 18:02:17)

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

"the forum's culture"

Internet culture?  I think its arguable that there is an internet culture, and, moreover, that it deserves to be regarded with the same level of respect that one would regard a real-world national or ethnic culture.

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

So far, the poll results are:

A's   1
B's   2
C's   1
D's   3


/me thinks we need more poll data

11 (edited by avogadro 29-Jun-2010 04:34:26)

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

D.... mods are not concerned with enforcement of the rules... they have their own ideals on what the forums should be like and their try to enforce their ideals and ignore the rules written down...

the rules are not laws that you will be punished for breaking. they are guidelines for the posters in an effort to try to limit the content the moderators have to edit... Einstein's thread about byrd didnt break any forum rules that i am aware of, but it was closed by primo because personally he rather not have that thread open.

you can be banned for reporting too many violations of the rules because the mods dont enforce the rules, they dont care if someone breaks the rules, their goal is not to enforce the rules.  they have their own ideas of what is and is not acceptable that often does not correspond to the rules.

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

> xeno syndicated wrote:

> "the forum's culture"

Internet culture?  I think its arguable that there is an internet culture, and moreover, that it deserves to be regarded with the same level of respect that one would regard a real-world national or ethnic culture.


i used that in an argument i had with a mod over some mod action... they didnt buy it...

13 (edited by avogadro 29-Jun-2010 07:49:30)

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

the moderators are here to moderate the forum, so that the forum better serves the community. i think most people agree to this. but the moderators typically enforce the rule that you cant discuss moderation. if you can't discuss moderation in the forum, then the feedback that the moderators can get from the community they are supposed to be providing a service for, is very limited; but instead the moderators prefer to live in their own bubble, safe from criticisms where they get to believe they are doing a good job.

the moderators here often act like immature children lack concern over the consequences of their actions, they often show favoritism, they lack the intelligence to catch people that can intelligently derail a thread, they often close threads after their response so they can feel good about getting the last word on a topic, their actions are typically emotional and heavy-handed, and they are extremely inconsistent, one moderator will ban someone for one thing and the next day wont even warn someone else for doing the same thing.

there is no order in the forums; its a rag tag team of bullies terrorizing the playground, and just about everyone has left because they dont want to deal with the bullies anymore. when i think of the worse moderating i have ever experienced in all the forums i have visited, this forum easily takes the cake, even the ones that have very strict rules are at least consistent....

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

i don't know, celebrating someone's death and hoping he's going to hell...

..that does not sound awfully respectfull to me...

NEE NAW NEE NAW

Primo

15 (edited by Little Paul 29-Jun-2010 09:24:49)

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

No, but it is a political p.o.v. so I don't understand why you blocked it?? Yours is a political pov as well. This should be allowed in politics!

You can condemn an entire race (decimus) or population of a nation (threads against americans, rusians, french etc) yet you can't wish one single person something terrible?

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

And honestly I wouldn't have mind him getting shot in the streets before he died.

17 (edited by avogadro 29-Jun-2010 14:16:56)

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

> [TI] Primo wrote:

> i don't know, celebrating someone's death and hoping he's going to hell...

..that does not sound awfully respectfull to me...


in the context of the rules, "respect others" clearly refers to other players/posters and not every person on the face of the earth past, present, or future...

here, look at the elaboration on the rule to show respect "You must respect others and their rights to enjoy this game and the forums. In order to show proper respect, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, insult, name call, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players or the moderators."

does that not spell out other players/posters and not everyone on the earth past, present, or future?


would you close a thread celebrating Hitler's death and hoping Hitler is going to hell?

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

yes i would

i did the same with a thread on saddam hussein's death as well.

NEE NAW NEE NAW

Primo

19 (edited by avogadro 29-Jun-2010 15:01:58)

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

would you close a thread celebrating Guy Fawkes day?

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

would you close a thread if it were called "ding! dong! the witch is dead!" X(

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Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

"would you close a thread celebrating Guy Fawkes day?"

The real question is, would I close a thread about celebrating the death of Sauron? Or Morgoth's exile?
avogadro, stop taking dumb-pills and abandon your quest for disputable noble silly goals. You say the fmod team is immature, while you followed me around in the forums for a while and made half witted insults to whatever I wrote. That's when you lost the right to be taken seriously, at least for me. tongue

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

So far, the poll results are:

A's   1
B's   2
C's   1
D's   4

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

Again, if I haven't mentioned this already, this wasn't meant to be a discussion - just a poll.  Please don't close thread.  We need more poll responses.

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

the moderators are here to moderate the forum, so that the forum better serves the community.<<

this is your constant mistake. The fmod team is there to enforce authority upon you. It serves Authority not the community, so your regular appeals to Liberty, Fraternity and Equality totally fail.  As does your demand for a dialectical proof of the Justice behind the power of authority over the community.  It is the Community who serves Authority for the betterment of Authority. This is the truth behind all commercial websites.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

25 (edited by avogadro 29-Jun-2010 20:57:46)

Re: Poll: Draconianism of IC forum rules

> Commander Christ wrote:

> "would you close a thread celebrating Guy Fawkes day?"

The real question is, would I close a thread about celebrating the death of Sauron? Or Morgoth's exile?
avogadro, stop taking dumb-pills and abandon your quest for disputable noble silly goals. You say the fmod team is immature, while you followed me around in the forums for a while and made half witted insults to whatever I wrote. That's when you lost the right to be taken seriously, at least for me. tongue


lmao, i never followed you around in the forums... that was just paranoia on your part tongue

i am not saying that the byrd thread was noble at all; i just viewed primo's reasoning for closing it silly, and was attempting to find out how far he would take his flawed reasoning...

i also already showed that the rule he is quoting pretty clearly indicates that the respecting others is referring to other players/posters, and not everyone on the face of the earth, past, present, or future...