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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

Equally if some of the crosses England put in were a foot one way or the other they may have resulted in a goal. You're applying double standards saying if Altidore's shot was a little bit one way then it would have gone in whereas for England you're saying it was their own fault for missing. I would  agree with either view point but you have to apply it equally. I think on the balance of the match England should have scored more goals than the USA and you could easily and justifiably put the fact that they didn't down to a combination of poor finishing, poor final balls into the box and poor goalkeeping. I don't think Rob Green would have been a man of the match candidate were it not for the goal because the only two contributions he made were (1) the goal where he cocked up and (2) Altidore's shot where he probably should have got more behind the parry anyway.

I chose to sum that up in the much shorter phrase "they were unlucky". If we're being pedantic then no I suppose it wasn't luck because yes the flight of the ball is entirely deterministic based on the deliberate actions of the players.

To try to change the subject (as it is getting a bit tired) Germany are currently steam rolling Australia. Unlucky anyone who gets Germany in the second round!

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

you are talking feet for england's goal, i am talking about millimeters for altidore's, they are not comparable.

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

The width of the post is greater than millimeters, as is the width of the goalkeepers hands.

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

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79 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 13-Jun-2010 21:10:12)

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

> [TI] Sitting Duck wrote:

> The width of the post is greater than millimeters, as is the width of the goalkeepers hands.


it did not hit the entire post or the entire goalkeepers' hand. it hit the inside of the post shown by the fact that it deflected inwards when it hit the post, a couple millimeters could of changed the deflection angle to the point where it would of still entered the goal.

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

But if he hit it further one way then it would have gone wide on it's own, and further the other way and the keeper would have made a more solid contact. I'd be willing to say that Altidore was unlucky with that shot and that Green was unlucky with his earlier fumble and that overall England were unlucky not to convert their increased pressure into more goals. Alternatively I am also willing to say Altidore picked the wrong option because it is difficult to beat the keeper at the near post from that angle so it is his own fault, Green cocked up himself and that was all his own fault and that it was England's own fault they didn't score more goals. But you can't pick and choose saying some are luck and others aren't.

I am quite happy to change my earlier "England should have won but were unlucky" to say England should have won because they had more possession and created more pressure and had more chances but didn't because they wasted it. millimetre changes in the trajectory of Altidore's shot won't change that.

I have no more to say on this subject because it's really getting boring.

Germany have hammered Australia.

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

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81 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 13-Jun-2010 21:40:43)

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

the difference is that the cut of a handfull of the grass, how the post is secured, the barametric pressure, the humidity, the wind, were all factors that the players have no control over, that if any of them were different, altidore's shot might of gone in. the fact that any single one of those could of had his goal gone in, is not a measure of his skill, its a matter of luck. Your goalie or your forwards making mistakes is part of what your team is, anyone can make a shot or a save given a million chances, the measure of skill is how consistently you can do it. England's mistakes are all a matter of the player's skills falling short. While minute environmental conditions was the difference between the US scoring a 2nd goal or not.

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

OK, I'm going to say one more thing because that last post is silly. The posts were there to start with, and the pressure and humidity did not change suddenly between him hitting the ball and it missing the goal, the wind was not a factor over that short distance with the ball hit that hard. They are conditions the players have no control over but the players judgement on where to kick the ball should have encompassed the playing conditions. You are also exaggerating how close it was to going in. We're not talking about the width of a hair here, or the distance that humidity or pressure may have caused the ball to swerve over that short distance, with the ball hit so hard and no spin put on the ball. And like I said, if it was hit closer to the keeper he would have saved it more convincingly, further from the keeper and it would have gone wide. Either way, it missed and it would have missed even if the air was more humid. He would have had more chance hitting it the other side of the keeper or laying it off to someone running in to the 6 yard box.

In my opinion England dominated the match and should have won, you can attribute that they didn't to skill, luck or divine intervention I don't really care.

This really is now all I have to say about this.

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

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83 Reply by The Yell (edited by Chris_Balsz 13-Jun-2010 22:15:18)

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

guess its too bad 11 Yanks were there at all to spoil your victory

btw this si why a win is better than a tie

maybe you didnt hate communism enough

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

> [TI] Sitting Duck wrote:

> OK, I'm going to say one more thing because that last post is silly. The posts were there to start with, and the pressure and humidity did not change suddenly between him hitting the ball and it missing the goal, the wind was not a factor over that short distance with the ball hit that hard. They are conditions the players have no control over but the players judgement on where to kick the ball should have encompassed the playing conditions. You are also exaggerating how close it was to going in. We're not talking about the width of a hair here, or the distance that humidity or pressure may have caused the ball to swerve over that short distance, with the ball hit so hard and no spin put on the ball. And like I said, if it was hit closer to the keeper he would have saved it more convincingly, further from the keeper and it would have gone wide. Either way, it missed and it would have missed even if the air was more humid. He would have had more chance hitting it the other side of the keeper or laying it off to someone running in to the 6 yard box.

In my opinion England dominated the match and should have won, you can attribute that they didn't to skill, luck or divine intervention I don't really care.

This really is now all I have to say about this.


the fact that the pressure or humidity didnt change suddenly has nothing to do with my point. the players can only judge envirmental conditions to such a degree, not a degree where they can intentionally change the ball's trajectory by millimeters. you are arguing that the ball was shot within a millimeter of the ideal spot for the short sided shot, and you are judging that from casually watching the screen once.... you're so silly.

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

On a funny note, Aussie got Spanked by Ze Germans lol

~*✠ ]PW[ Forever ✠*~

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

Countdown to Dutch elimination

The inmates are running the asylum

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

Countdown postponed until the next match, and I'd just like to say the following words;

Denemarken bedankt, Denemarken bedankt, Dene-Dene-Denemarken bedankt!

Je maintiendrai

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

seems like this world cup is really low scoring.... so far no team has scored a goal and lost....

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

The 4-0 score for Germany can hardly be called low.

Je maintiendrai

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90 Reply by The Yell (edited by Chris_Balsz 14-Jun-2010 18:06:12)

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

3 reasons "futbol" never succeeds in the USA

1.  YOU DON"T WIN. You end games in a tie and then argue who had the moral force.  In American sports, if you "dominate the ball without scoring" often enough, you have a 0-44 season.

2.  You don't take territory.  Most of our other sports, 5 mins of ballhandling either produces a goal attempt or a forced turnover or a small gain of a base or 10 yards.  In soccer a nine-minute drive might end with a goal shot, and it might signal another 5 minutes of passing.

3. Latin American fans are nucking futs, and who wants to party with those loons? You don't, you never invite them to your World Cup finals.

Our World Cup team has got to be eliminated, or Americans might forget these points and start rooting for adult soccer.  Look at Imperial, he's arguing the merits of a tie.  He didn't learn that in the Corps! Do, or do not! there is no "try"!

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

http://www.manofest.com/Galleries/Sports/The-100-Hottest-Female-Soccer-Fan-Photos/Hot-Brazilian-Fan-11712.html

All three points skillfully counterd.

Je maintiendrai

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

> BiefstukFriet wrote:

> The 4-0 score for Germany can hardly be called low.


its the lone exception...

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93 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 14-Jun-2010 18:54:56)

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

the main reason soccer will never be a popular spectator sport in the US is because it rewards diving way too much.  the hero of the match is the forward that dove and tricked the ref into giving his team a pk that ended up being the sole goal of the game.... no american can respect a professional sport league that has that taking place.

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

You make it sound like that happens all the time. tongue

Je maintiendrai

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95 Reply by The Yell (edited by Chris_Balsz 14-Jun-2010 19:44:43)

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

avo, that's the whole premise behind the NBA

hmm, maybe we can get latrell spreewell into FIFA

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

> BiefstukFriet wrote:

> Countdown postponed until the next match, and I'd just like to say the following words;

Denemarken bedankt, Denemarken bedankt, Dene-Dene-Denemarken bedankt!<<

No fair, you had 13 men on your side on one drive

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

Getting the other team to work for you, hows them tactics!?

Je maintiendrai

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

The reason soccer wont be popular in america? Not enough padding to protect themselves from coming into contact with the ground...

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99 Reply by [TI] Sitting Duck (edited by [TI] Sitting Duck 14-Jun-2010 21:07:31)

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

Avo, that's not what I was saying at all, but frankly I don't care anymore.

I started to watch Italy Vs PAraguay but I have never seen anything so boring before

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

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Re: Countdown to American Elimination

I started to watch Italy Vs PAraguay but I have never seen anything so boring before<<

the cry of a man without Dodgers baseball!

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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