1 (edited by Einstein 06-Jun-2010 02:10:50)

Topic: Science Geeks

If C (classically the speed of light in a vacuum) has a fixed speed then would not this argument disprove relativity?

Take a string of perfectly formed carbon nanotube, then tie/merge it to a bullet our other projectile and fire it.

The carbon nanotube will respond at both ends at the same time due to structure of the material thus ending the theory of relativity as it would respond faster than C.

Assume enough weight exists to keep it perfectly taunt.






Edit for the first three to post since they might be idiots and did not see the reference of C

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Re: Science Geeks

The speed of light is not constant. It's only constant in a vacuum. For example, when travelling through sodium at -270 degrees, light slows to 38 miles per hour.

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Re: Science Geeks

Error: does not compute.

1/0

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DarkMason
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Re: Science Geeks

We can always prove relativity to Einstein with a nuclear bomb. I suppose the only way to really PROVE it to him would be for him to experience it firsthand. Ready for science? smile

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Re: Science Geeks

Sigh did no one see the reference to C?

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Re: Science Geeks

would it respond simultaneously though? I've seen a bullet fired into an apple and there was a definite ripple visible on the film

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Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Science Geeks

Carbon nanotube is -PERFECT- if whole

It does not stretch

It has a tremendously high stress point




The characteristics of it make it so that it will not shear under this stress, will not stretch with the initial pull, and will react at both ends simultaneously.

The fact both ends move exactly at the same time on the same frame means relativity is bogus.

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Re: Science Geeks

"Sigh did no one see the reference to C?"

Well, you just adapted your first post after I told you there wasn't any constant speed of light except for in a vacuum. X(

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Science Geeks

i have no idea what you are talking about. something with lightspeed and Carbon nanotube which i have heard something about last week on tv.

Re: Science Geeks

I asked Lateralis (he's a physics phd) to post a small explanation btw.
I'm still pondering myself. Could you supply a source that literally states these attributes of nanotubes?

At this time, I go with this:
"It has a tremendously high stress point"

Doesn't it have to have a stress point that equals infinity to make it react simultaniously on both ends?

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Science Geeks

there is a constant speed of light in every medium

it never exceeds 186,282 miles per hour

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Science Geeks

I meant that it doesn't always go at that speed Chris...

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Science Geeks

In what way would your situatuion violate relativity?  (I am assuming by the way that you are talking about special and not general relativity...) 

Specifically, define "perfect", "will not stretch or shear", "stress point" and "at the same time". 

Moreover, consider the atomic structure of your nanotube and what forces bind the nanotube in this structure. 

You'll quickly realise that relativity is not violated.

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14 (edited by [TI] Lateralis 06-Jun-2010 17:53:32)

Re: Science Geeks

Bonus points to Wouter for spotting the bleeding obvious, too.

(Except that "stress point" isn't a scientific or engineering term... but what you mean is correct.)

To those who understand I extend my hand; To the doubtful I demand to take me as I am.

Re: Science Geeks

marcia marcia marcia!!

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Science Geeks

Why thank you, Lat!!
Flint, seems you've been proved wrong by someone you claimed to be an unworthy stupid nothing tongue

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

17 (edited by Chris_Balsz 06-Jun-2010 18:16:30)

Re: Science Geeks

whaddya mean "stress point" isn't engineering term?  it's the point of failure in an overloaded system

since the stress/strain limit is calculated with the distance between anchors as a factor.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

18 (edited by [TI] Lateralis 06-Jun-2010 18:34:37)

Re: Science Geeks

Stress is a well defined concept.  It is a tensor of order 2. 

"Moment of force" is force times distance.  That is, if you have a piece of 2x4 held up at either end by a support of some description and then placed a weight in the middle you can calcuate the moment of force.  Often this is simply refered to as "moment".

What you and Flint said about the "stress point" being the point of failure when the system is overloaded is not correct scientific parlance.  At least, it is no term that I have ever come across in my years a physicist, either in physics or engineering departments.

In the 2x4 example above, the weight on the beam will induce stress and strain fields within the 2x4, which are in principle calcuable and certainly simulatable.  The Wikipedia article on mechanical stress is very thorough, but isn't for the faint of heart.

Right, that's enough IC for this month.  I'll bid you all adieu.  But I'll keep a look out for the geek symbol in the sky for when I'm next needed!

To those who understand I extend my hand; To the doubtful I demand to take me as I am.

Re: Science Geeks

"in principle"???  yes it is calculable.  I was offered instruction on some of the stress formulas at age 15 in shop.  over the past 200 years geeks have destroyed enough material samples to publish thick tables of stress/strain ratings.   yes if you have a 2x4 of oak, you know at what point the tension will cause the oak to flex beyond recovery ("fail").  if it is anchored at each end and the stress is on the beam it will probably fail by splitting in the middle.  if it's cantilevered it may fail at the anchor point.  there are different formulas and the method of anchoring is a factor.  the formula is set up to solve for stress / strain, and when that ratio is > the material's stress/strain ratio it will fail. Usually 15% safety margin is figured in, so you want a stress/strain solution not more than 84% of the maximum tolerance.

and when you have a truss, you will have stresses shared at angles and at multiple points.  but there's always a most probable point of failure.  We wouldn't go putting 500 tons of concrete and steel 1000 feet in the air with 40,000 people inside if we didn't know these things!

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Science Geeks

The stress point was proper in context.

Carbon nanotubes:

http://www.pa.msu.edu/cmp/csc/ntproperties/

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
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Re: Science Geeks

I'd have given a real response, but Einstein is obviously confused, and I don't want to get a headache trying to follow where he thinks he's gone with this. Making 2 ends of a tube move at the same time has nothing to do with relativity.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Science Geeks

I think that Lateralis, a graduated physicist and working on a phd in semiconductors, has a better graps of the whole area than you, Flint.
What keeps you from admitting your error is just your personal feud with Lateralis. It probably also doesn't help that I seem to be correct. tongue

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Science Geeks

Kemp the thing is if an object of enough length moves on both ends at the same time out is faster than C.

Since Relativity requires that it is impossible to send data at the speed of C or faster this would violate relativity.

With all due respect to Lateralis I disagree. As a math scientist i am treating him as an equal and have provided him information relevant to my claim.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
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Re: Science Geeks

sorry I don't believe this has been demonstrated, because if it had been, we'd skip fiberoptic communications and girdle the earth with nanotubes.  because if I stamp a nanotube in Berlin and it hits Beijing at supralight speeds that would beat the hell out of beaming a signal at light speed to a satellite and reflecting it down at light speed to Beijing.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Science Geeks

No it has not been demonstrate yet. But all figures add up.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)