Topic: Good for Israel

Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organizations.

The Palestinian Authority is a terrorists state dedicated to the ethnic cleansing.

The blockade of Gaza is sensible and should be upheld by force.

Supporters of Hamas and Hezbollah who try to break that blockade should be killed for interfering in a war.

It would be better for Israel to rely on war to destroy its enemies than participate in immoral diplomacy, which supports terrorism.

Global diplomacy has failed the moral test.  The United Nations is deeply evil, a source for tyranny and destruction of human dignity and enslavement of humanity.

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Re: Good for Israel

What I want to know is, why were there Turkish soldiers onboard?

Je maintiendrai

Re: Good for Israel

the Turks are turning back towards hardline antiWestern religious fundamentalism

Opposing Israel is morally right ot them, therefore, why not send troops to show support for a righteous venture?   Israel is wrong to deny Gaza arms anyhow. - so they think.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Good for Israel

Some people would say that the Israel is a terrorist state dedicated to ethnic cleansing.

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

5 (edited by V.Kemp 31-May-2010 19:44:53)

Re: Good for Israel

All of the condemnations are coming from nations that would have done the same, though they would probably have been less professional and killed more of the invaders.

Turkish were on board because it was a media event, and their presence was part of the show. They didn't waste time in their response of manufactured outrage.

The boating enthusiasts voiced fears that, if they docked and had their cargo inspected, Israel would not allow the supplies to be trucked into Gaza. But I'm seeing stories of Israel allowing such supplies into Gaza (Dichter: Israel to allow aid supplies, food into Gaza [http://www.haaretz.com/news/dichter-israel-to-allow-aid-supplies-food-into-gaza-1.223188]) and no stories about Israel hijacking said supplies.

Israel allowed humanitarian aid and was attacked with rockets. Palestinians use such means of transportation to transport rockets, and they can foresee such means of transportation being revoked. Perhaps humanitarian concerns should be aimed at Palestinian rocket fire at Israel which has prompted the closed crossings. Maybe they could acknowledge that rockets kill people, and killing people is bad. Can't they commit to such a statement? Perhaps they could target their energy toward a more noble goal than defending Palestinians' right to fire rockets at their neighbor. The 39% unemployment among Palestinians, for instance? I'm not an economist, but I suspect that Palestinians would benefit more from other cargo than explosives and the propellants to send them into Israel. Defending Palestinian rights to access to tools of murder seems to be a misguided humanitarian goal at best.

But this boating trip was not a humanitarian mission. That

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Re: Good for Israel

yep every person "trapped" in palestina are terrorists.

stop with the stupid stereotypes. yeah america had a war, declared war on terrorists but because most of their population is utterly ignorant and stupid they dumbed it down to:

muslim = terrorist = bad

sure there are bad ppl there. but how many criminals are there in america huh? and how would they react if you were to try to control every aspect of their lives?

anyway. declaring an entier country terrorists just because due to a few bad apples another nation decided to try to control them and they don't like it is really a very thought out proces I see here of you chris.

heck put you in germany ow say in 1946 and you would use these same arguments to justify the berlin wall.

Re: Good for Israel

Would you defend America if its President and Congress openly declared that your country had no right to exist? Would you defend America if it fired rockets into your country as often as it could obtain them? Would you support no action to try to stop America from attacking you? What would you support?

I am an American and I have Muslim friends. They're good people just like me, and they love life, and they like to make business. Many of them work very, very hard. Sometimes they try to hook me up with women from their home countries (most recently Turkey). I must not be one of those ignorant people who dumbed it down. But I would like to correct you on one point: You said America "had a war," but America is still at war.

We don't have any problem with Muslims. But anyone who wants to kill American civilians because Americans put their boots on their soil, yeah: we're okay with killing all of them.

The Berlin wall fell when East Germany was no longer a communist hellhole. It didn't fall because the West conceded to communist demands. It certainly wouldn't have fallen because of rockets fired from the east side. Maybe you could take a trip and inform Palestinians of this lesson from history.

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Re: Good for Israel

>>anyway. declaring an entier country terrorists just because due to a few bad apples another nation decided to try to control them and they don't like it is really a very thought out proces I see here of you chris.<<

Pretending that the Palestinian Authority - a gang of at most 5000 -- represents a population of a few million so closely that we can't condemn one without "smearing" the other, is not thinking clearly.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Good for Israel

And to consider the rulers, via weapons, of Gaza to be peace lovers is insane.

They had a war, to see who controls the Gaza Strip and Israel had no choice but to sit back and watch.

The more evil of the bunch won there.


To act as if otherwise happened says you IGNORE HISTORY to suit your own needs/desires/worldview.

Palestine needs an MLK, not the Black Panthers. They need a John Paul II, not a Hitler, they need a Mother Teresa, not a Pol Pot.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
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Re: Good for Israel

> [TI] Sitting Duck wrote:

> Some people would say that the Israel is a terrorist state dedicated to ethnic cleansing.


those people would ignore the Arabs sitting in teh Israeli Knesset.

What plan do the Arabs have for the Jews when "Palestine" is restored?  We all know it.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Good for Israel

"restored"?

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Re: Good for Israel

"Israel allowed humanitarian aid and was attacked with rockets."

Now that we have taken your homes and land for ourselves we would like you to eat food that you can only ever get through us, and look greatful.

Great Britain said that once, remember what happened? Was that right or wrong?

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

Re: Good for Israel

Funny you mention Great Britian.

They called it Palestine, even though the Arab language lacks a p sound.

Also interesting that at the same time the Israeli population grew so did the Arab population.

Interesting Great Britian did drop a big ball here, forcing Israelis to defend themselves.

Interesting that Israel disavowed any genocides and invited any Arabs to stay in the new nation.

Interesting so many Arabs left, expecting all Israelis to be killed, to the last man, woman, and child.


They bet on a genocide that never happened. And I am supposed to feel sorry for them?

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Re: Good for Israel

"To act as if otherwise happened says you IGNORE HISTORY to suit your own needs/desires/worldview."

History does not favour one or the other Flint. The Palestinians were denied a lot of things, including their own state.

"Palestine needs an MLK, not the Black Panthers. They need a John Paul II, not a Hitler, they need a Mother Teresa, not a Pol Pot."

Palestine needs to be treated with respect first before something can happen.
Fokker does make a valid point with referring to Great Britain. Northern Ireland was a waspnest until the Catholic population's situation improved. No sane man would sacrifice his life to some elusive cause if they have something to live for. That's exactly what needs to happen in the Levant area. But as long as Jewish settlements are being built, the Palestinian population is regarded as a massive terrorist people (we can agree that Hamas isn't the answer) and they are denied any economic impulse, the Israelites are only creating more foes. And a part of me thinks that's exactly what they're aiming for. It's a way to reclaim their "promised land" completely.

Just for you to think about: A small list of banned goods by Israel in the Gaza strip:
-cement
-crayons
-chocolate
-toys
-shampoo
-orange juice
(source: http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail.aspx?artikelid=8Q2QTKT3 )

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Good for Israel

This is a Turkish ploy, meant to strenghten Islam party in Turkey and diminish the influence of the secular military. If that nation ever joins the EU I will burn down a mosque. I'm half tempted to do so now anyways.

Je maintiendrai

Re: Good for Israel

"They bet on a genocide that never happened. And I am supposed to feel sorry for them?"

The israelis don't go free on the genocide part either. They had a hand in the Sabra and Shatila massacres.

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Good for Israel

A friend of mine was one of the people on the boat, leading up to the event he was second hand man to the guys driving the cargo in, he always said that they were doing a good thing. Turkish officials checked the cargo before they left to see if everything was in order also. After that I lost contact with him.


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Re: Good for Israel

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Je maintiendrai

19 (edited by [RPA] Arocalex 01-Jun-2010 12:39:33)

Re: Good for Israel

Nobody had any intention of causing any harm, all they wanted was the embargo to stop. Reports come in of people sleeping is tents and not having enough to eat to Turkey all the time. Message boards contain numerous stories.
There was just an general feeling to help them.

Not many people know this, but I own the first radio in Springfield. Not much on the air then, just Edison reciting the alphabet over and over. "A" he'd say; then "B." "C" would usually follow...

Re: Good for Israel

Yes, somehow, I don't understand how people keep siding with the Israelites.
They took the land, drove the inhabiting people out of their houses, declared a one-sided independence. They still keep on taking Palestinian soil and claim ownership of their religious places, had a hand in the huge massacres of Sabra and Shatila, refuse to recognise the independent state of Palestina and actively deny rights to the Arabs in Israel.
One could say they are not exclusivly victims of terrorists.
Yes, they lost 6 millions in WWII and it is a tragedy, but it does not justify this apartheid or (a bold statement, I know) a slow ethnic cleansing.

I'm not saying the Palestinians don't have blood on their hands. I'm merely saying a proper solution can only come to exist in a more neutral treatment by the UN of both people. And first of all, Israel will have to agree on economic agreements with the Palestinians, so that they can work on a viable country. That, and only that will be the start of a true peace process.

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Good for Israel

Let's see.... embargo of luxuries.


How are crayons neccessary for human life?

Chocolate?

Oh shampoo? Well I can see how Europeans can think wiithout shampoo life cannot go on.



An embargo is an embargo.


People die over there due to missile attacks. Ending luxuries until the attacks have ceased for a while puts pressure on the population to make the bad guys behave.




Arcolex I spit on your friend. Violating an embargo of TERRORISTS! He should be ashamed and so should you of him. Any friend of mine supports terrorists is no friend of mine!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
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Re: Good for Israel

"Oh shampoo? Well I can see how Europeans can think wiithout shampoo life cannot go on."

Turks are NOT Europeans! X(

Je maintiendrai

Re: Good for Israel

Flint, what about cement? People got their houses bombed..
That list was merely to show what silly things they put an embargo on. Flint, you absolutely have an eye to attack the details or examples, rather than the essence of the point made.

"Oh shampoo? Well I can see how Europeans can think wiithout shampoo life cannot go on."

Up yours with your "Uhmericuh is teh superior"-sentiment. It's silly and pointless.

"People die over there due to missile attacks. Ending luxuries until the attacks have ceased for a while puts pressure on the population to make the bad guys behave."

Yes, people do die there of missiles but most of them aren't Israeli's.

"Arcolex I spit on your friend. Violating an embargo of TERRORISTS! He should be ashamed and so should you of him. Any friend of mine supports terrorists is no friend of mine!"

So the people who instated the embargo are terrorists too now? tongue
Hold your horses, Flint. It's not the people who are the terrorists, but a small fraction of them. They hold the weapons and with the embargo they surely would ensure they get their goods first. Pretty much like in any other embargoed country. Kim Yong Il was put on a similar embargo and he still manages to get his luxuaries. It's the people who suffer, not the leaders.
As psychology clearly shows, it's good to reward people when they're on the right way. Brutal action doesn't work. As you said, things have improved these last few months, surely the israelites could have allowed certain things to return into the Gaza strip. Like crayons for example.
Even children surely can not be a part of the population that's linked with terrorism in your mind, Flint.

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Good for Israel

They took the land, drove the inhabiting people out of their houses, declared a one-sided independence. They still keep on taking Palestinian soil and claim ownership of their religious places, had a hand in the huge massacres of Sabra and Shatila, <<

"palestinian soil" would include all Israel, according to Palestinians.

>>refuse to recognise the independent state of Palestina <<
they've had diplomatic relations for some time
btw when one independent state encourages rocket strikes over the border into another independent state, what do you call that?

>>actively deny rights to the Arabs in Israel. <<

Arab-Israelis hold seats in the Knesset.  I hear the same lament from "oppressed" Flemish in your country--does that mean it must be true?


>>I'm not saying the Palestinians don't have blood on their hands. I'm merely saying a proper solution can only come to exist in a more neutral treatment by the UN of both people. And first of all, Israel will have to agree on economic agreements with the Palestinians, so that they can work on a viable country. That, and only that will be the start of a true peace process.<<

There is no point in a peace process.  The peace process is the biggest farce since the Berlin wall fell down.  Any economic growth by Palestine will be thrown into war with Israel.  I say that because they got hundreds of millions at Oslo and threw it into war with Israel.  They got their state and they started looting their own people. It's not Israel that prevents an Arab from owning hotels in Gaza.  The PA views such people as targets for extortion.  The PA, like Russia, is an organized crime ring with embassies.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

25 (edited by V.Kemp 01-Jun-2010 15:47:19)

Re: Good for Israel

>>Now that we have taken your homes and land for ourselves we would like you to eat food that you can only ever get through us, and look greatful.<<

Israel didn't create Israel, just as Israel didn't force the people who had land taken from them to side with the losers in conflict. You failed to address the rocket attacks and the fact that not inspecting cargo results in arms transport and dead Israeli civilians. Maybe you don't care when Palestinians kill Israelis with rockets, but if you don't say that in response and just post the same incomplete responses, you're only hurting yourself. You're trying to make the argument that Israel is imposing control over Palestinians, when Israel has even tried to lift the ban and not inspect: only to be fired upon by more rockets. Your argument only holds water when you completely ignore facts in evidence, which is what you're doing.

No regard (or even mention) of the facts surrounding Israel's creation. No regard for the rocket attacks motivating the embargo.

Would you prefer they fight rockets with rockets, not an embargo? It seems they're doing the humanitarian thing. They're easily capable of destroying the threat to them, yet they choose to motivate Palestinians to not give control to a terrorist group who oppresses them as well as attacks Israel. You would argue that it's the Palestinians' job to remove Hamas, right? You certainly aren't supporting Israel doing it themselves.

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